The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

A question... When we see a pre-dog Victor, (of any model), equipped with horn having a "dog" decal, is this a legitimate pairing? In other words, did pre-dog Victors come with "dog" decal horns? If so, during what eras? (I'm sure the super early stuff had no dogs at all.) Did leather elbow horns have "dog" decals?

Great question Jerry. Definitely one for John D or George P to answer! I have six pre-dog machines, five with leather elbows and one rigid arm conversion. None of my leather elbow horns have a Victor decal. Of course, I can't confirm whether these are the original horns to the machines. My theory, based on old catalogs, and one John or George can quickly dispel, is that the horn decal appeared at about the same time the brass elbow was introduced for front mount machines. The earliest catalog I've seen with images of decals on front mount horns is from 1904, but it seems it took a while for the catalogs images to reflect actual offerings.

Michael

I was reluctant to answer this, in hopes that someone who has seriously studied the topic might offer a definitive answer. I'm still hoping...

That said, my observations align with those of Jerry and Michael. I don't believe any Eldridge Johnson machines left the factory with decals on their horns. Likewise with early Victor machines (Royals seemed to carry pre-dog data plates for a long time.) Like Michael, I believe the transition to horn decals occurred close to the time (maybe even precisely) when brass elbows replaced leather.

As already noted, it's often unknown if a particular horn was original to a particular machine. That doesn't help researchers, but years of finding Victors "in the wild" and the illustrations contained in Victor catalogs appear to support the theory that Victor horn decals and brass elbows appeared at approximately the same time.

I wish I could offer something more definitive, but as I wrote above, I'm hoping someone will.

George P.