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Hi -

Need info about a swap meet find today. It is a portable "Primaphone" phonograph, marked "Primaphone, Bombay." The first thing that I thought (okay, the second thing) was that it was some sort of Indian Frankenphone, however it appears to be quite old and well made. The entire thing folds up into a nifty wooden box that measures about 7 by 8 by 9 inches. The reproducer looks almost identical to a Victor Exhibition, only the rubber flange on the back is held on by three screws and it is marked "Excelsior Primaphone Swiss Make." It plays 78s, works, and is amazingly loud. Sounds really good, actually. It appears to be all original, the only flaw being that the wooden base under the tonearm is loose and a pivot for the tone arm looks to have been replaced. The motor is marked "T. Horens - Swiss Made." See photos.

What the heck is this thing?

Thanks -- Mike

Well, I googled "Thorens," who appears to have made the motor, and came up with this. I guess that this is a start:

http://www.keithwright.ca/Thorens/radio ... phono.html

Definately not a frankenphone. I would say the entire machine was made by Thorens of Switzerland.
They made an aweful lot of different machines, including horn, cabinet & portable models,which were sold to companies around the world & were labelled with that particular companies brand name via decals &/or soundbox labels.

The board the tonearm is mounted on appears to have been changed, probably because the screw holes were stripped out at some stage. I haven't seen this model before, so I dont know what is missing from the inside of the lid, but I suspect it was just a simple piece of board that was hinged & fell slightly forward to act as an extention of the horn to reflect the sound forward.
The circular hole in the motor board would be for the storage of the crank when not in use.
I think it's a great little machine & it should clean up & perform well. Those soundboxes sound just as good as an Exhibition once restored, but unfortunately the horn design on many of these Thorens portables let them down. They seem to have been more concerned with keeping most portables small & compact rather than the sound quality.
I'd love to find one of these myself. Nice score.

Thanks very much for all the great info. It was a good day at the swap meet (also picked up a stack of 1840's - 1860's sheet music, plus some sort of early cased zither, so music seems to have been the theme of the day).

Do you have any idea how old this phonograph is? I'm guessing 1910's or 1920's?

Thanks again -- Mike

I have quite a few machines that use the same motor & soundbox, and they date from between about 1918 to 1927, so my guess would be yours falls within that time line too.

I would guess that the holes in the inside of the lid once held some sort of clip that held the tonearm in place when the box was closed. The tonearm tends to flop over a bit when closing the lid otherwise.

Here's another "Prima-Phone" on eBay. It's an external horn machine, probably an early reproduction machine.
http://cgi.ebay.com/WIND-UP-WOODEN-GRAM ... 213wt_1078

That's definitely a crapophone, though the case is prettier than usual.

Why do the crapophone ads always show them with the soundbox on the wrong side of the platter?

Yes, definitely a crapophone, made out of some kind of portable. I think it could be made in Europe by a certain notorious person from Bedford. He has a stall in Petticoat Lane in London, selling both original and fake stuff.
I will not mention names here, because this persion has a certain reputation for starting legal action. All of which he lost by the way, but I don't want to be bothered with that.
The turntable is a dead giveaway. No horn gramophone ever had one with a velvet covering. Horns can be replaced, they're the most vulnerable anyhow and this one obviously is a fake new one. But this machine must be fake too, although a much less worse one than what you normally find. It could even play reasonably well.
Price? 50 euro or 70 dollars max.