The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I have a sapphire stylus on the way but no Pathé records in my collection. If anyone
has a few they would like to sell please let me know. Thanks!

Pathé vertical cuts show up on eBay with some regularity. I have bought several there. Some sellers have bizarre notions of what they are worth, but if you watch for awhile you can pick up some decent ones at a reasonable price. Often too some of the sellers don’t know a vertical cut from a hole in the ground, so you need to know what you are looking for in terms of label types, etc.

Clay

FloridaClay wrote:Pathé vertical cuts show up on eBay with some regularity. I have bought several there. Some sellers have bizarre notions of what they are worth, but if you watch for awhile you can pick up some decent ones at a reasonable price. Often too some of the sellers don’t know a vertical cut from a hole in the ground, so you need to know what you are looking for in terms of label types, etc.

Clay

Yes, and better hope that they did not try to play them on their Victrola with a steel needle before selling.
Andreas

Yes Andreas, that is always a worry. So far I have been lucky with the half dozen or so I have bought.

Clay

As far as the labels, if it says "Pathé" or "Actuelle" its vertical cut correct?

actuelle is typically lateral cut. the vertical cut discs should indicate that, or that they're for use with a saphire or jewel (tipped needle).

If you rub the surface of a hill-and-dale record between thumb and forefinger, you might find that the grooves 'feel' different than lateral recordings. I always say that I can pick out hill-and-dale recordings in a dark room with my eyes closed.

Pathé went through many changes in record design over the years, further complicated by their being sold all over the world with variations in different countries.

Basically as far as I know all of the earliest Pathés with the etched labels (no paper) are vertical cuts. The labels on these are basically incised lines in the record filled with white paint or wax for contrast so you can read them. The thing you have to look out for on those is that some were 90 rpm and some were 80 rpm. Again as far as I have been able to determine, the ones made in the USA were all 80 rpm. Personally I look for those because my Pathé 75 will not spin fast enough to play the 90 rpm records. If you find them that were made in the USA, or made abroad that specifically say they are 80 rpm on the label, you should be good.

Indicators of USA etched labels are records in the 65,000 master number series (the master number is part of the information written in a circle around the circumference of the label in fairly large type) and a letter prefix to the number of the specific record that appears inside the diamond-shaped box on the label, e.g. “B.5052”.

Next came round paper labels. I have some of those that are vertical cuts made in both the USA and in Europe. They play at 80 rpm. The issue here is that Pathé made records with round paper labels for decades in Europe and later ones are lateral cuts. If you see one you know is early, or made in the USA, or that makes some reference to the sapphire stylus on the label (in words or with an illustration of the round ball stylus) they should be verticals though. And if you have a knowledgeable dealer they will tell you whether they are vertical or lateral.

When Pathé finally gave up and first went to lateral cuts (often called "needle cut" on the label), they shifted to the "Actuelle" designation and octagon shaped label. Actuelles are all lateral cuts as far as I know. The octagon shaped label is an immediate tip off on these.

There are also some other odd things out there, such as 16" Pathé records, but they played at very high rpm and very few existing phonographs are big enough to accept them.

There is an excellent low-production spiral bound reference book all about Pathé records called “Pathé Records and Phonographs in America, 1914-1922” by George A. Copeland and Ronald Dethlefson and a second edition of that came out in 2001, but it is pretty expensive.

Clay

Thanks Clay and others for the helpful info! I have some Pathé discs on the way and my sapphire stylus
is ready to go.