The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Hello there
Im getting a gramophone for my 21st but i need some help. Iv done some research but i would love to hear the opinions and knowledge of some people in the know. By what i have been told this gramophone is a 1920s HMV cabinet gramophone, it plays beautifully but it is damaged on the inside of the lit and the lower doors have scratch marks on them. They are asking AU$525 for it but im not completely sure if this is what its worth. I would really appreciate anything anybody knows about this especially regarding if its a fake, what model it is and what it is worth! Hope you can help

Appears to be a VV-XVI, ca. 1913-1917. The XVI was one of Victor's flagship machines in the acoustic era. That sounds reasonable, given its quality and size. They're not terribly rare, though. To the best of my knowledge, there were never "fake" Victrola/internal horn gramophones, but fake external horn gramophones are being made in India (they're only fake if being sold as an original. Most often, they're sold as "replicas for display only", and are generally 1/10 of the price of an authentic outside horn record player). It may have mismatched parts somewhere, but that won't do anything bad if it works fine, unless you're going for pure authenticity

Congrats on your new gift! May it inaugurate a wonderful collection (of machines or records, your pick, my friend!)!

One of the photos shows the data plate of this machine. It's an HMV Mahogany Library Grand No. 2. I can't be of any help regarding value, but there are several knowledgeable Aussies on this board who can advise you.

George P.

It looks authentic; obviously not a Frankenphone. The Library Grand was one of many models produced by the Gramophone Company, LTD. In fact, a relatively rare, early version can be viewed in this post thread:

http://gramophones.myfreeforum.org/arch ... t_188.html

You'll note that the very elaborate "His Master's Voice" logo is nearly identical to the one that appears on your model.

Where is the "Wizard of OZ" when we need him?

"Our" machines in Australia seem to command higher prices than equivalent machines in America, and personally I think around $500 is right for a machine like this if the springs are OK. Expect to rebuild the reproducer (around $30 here) and you'll have a great machine.

Thankyou all SO MUCH for your amazing knowledge and advice. Going in tomorrow to make the big purchase and im beyond excited. Couldnt be more thankful to everyone in this forum

If you're in Sydney, Humphrey02, then Yesterday Once Again Australia http://www.yoaa.com.au is the place for spring repairs and reproducer rebuilds. Also, Marcel (saxymojo) on this forum would be able to help with parts and needles, etc. (Marcel do you do springs as well?)

Hi Humphrey02,

Looks like I've arrived a little late to your thread.
I notice your lid stay is missing in the photos. Do you know if it with the machine or is it lost?
It might be a fairly hard part to find, but I'm pretty sure you'll find one eventually, but it may have to be found in England. I cant tell from the pictures if the casters are still with the machine either, but if not, those & the lid stay may give you some bargaining chips to get the machine at a lower price.

The Mahogany Library Grand is part of a special range of machines that were made in England, for sale here in Australia & in New Zealand. These included Excello & Austral (hornless models), the Zealand & Tasman (table models), & the Bungalow, Mahogany Library Grand & Studio Grand (upright models).
There was also a console model which I came across about 25 yrs ago, but at the time I didn't think it was anything special so I didn't take note of the name.
Some of these models were exactly the same, or very similar to models sold in England, while others like the Bungalow & Studio Grand were unique to this line & never marketed in UK.
The brass "gramophone" name tags used on these machines where never used on HMV's sold in England either, but I have seen a similar "Zonophone" tag used on a cheaper line of Zonophone machines made by the Gramophone Co & sold here.

The MLG uses the same cabinet & basic specifications as Model 11 pictured below, but slight variations in metalware & running gear were used on our machines.
Apart from my own MLG, yours is only the second I've come across, & is the first No.2. I cant image these are in any way rare, but they are certainly far less common than either the Bungalow or Studio Grand uprights, if Ebay is anything to go by.
Bungalows seem to sell for between $400-$600, and Studios often sell in the $600-$800 range, so I dont think $525 is too far off the mark, even without the lid stay.

Looking at the photos, the lid stay appears to have had the two screws removed from the lid and has now dropped to the escutcheon on the motor board for whatever reason.