The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It's probably been discussed before, I just can't get my head around it:
I know that ideally only records pre-1926 should be played on horn or pre-orthophonic machines. I also know that electrical recordings from between 1926 to mid 1930s should be played on orthophonic machines, because of higher frequencies that would not sound well on older machines. Records from the mid 1930s on should only be played on electric phonos, because of the lower pickup weight etc.

Now this last statement is where I have my problem. I know that acoustic machines, mostly portables were made well into the 1950s and even 1960s, and I cannot believe that everyone only listened to 20+ year old music on them. I also cannot believe that record companies would have made records not to be played on a big part of the players out there. I can see the issue for late vinyl 78s, but not for the majority, which still seemed to have been shellac. And many of the new electric phonos had very high tracking weight and used steel needles as well. So what's the real story?

Of course, I'm not talking about the audiophile or about priceless records. I'm talking about the everyday enjoyment of the stacks of 78s we all have at home. I found most of them play well on older machines with soft tone needles, even those that I already played many many times. I found some that blast or slow down the machine, so I'll skip those, but I never found any that would get damaged.
Comments?
Andreas

Andreas, I am with you. But it depends, I think, on the focus of your collecting.

I want my machines for the considerable pleasure to me of hearing period recordings played on period machines that have been brought back to life after years of neglect. Even if it is heresy, I play even some plastic 78s, e.g., Mercury, on my Orthophonic with no discernable ill effects. I use soft tone needles with the post-acoustic recordings.

The majority of 78s out there are common as dirt, and about as cheap, and most you find are not still pristine or especially rare. As for common 78s, I have them to use on my old machines and just enjoy.

Others may have a different focus; the laudable impulse to preserve the dwindling number of rare or still pristine recordings for future generations. If that is your goal (and even if it is not, with respect to parts of your collection of records that are pristine, or rare, or have special personal value, or that you like to play frequently) using modern equipment that plays records with a light touch is in order.

I am happy that there are collectors of the second type, it is just not for me.

Clay

I feel the same way. I mostly play acoustic records on my machines, but I do play later ones on them also. Mainly because most of them are already worn and are fairly common. The few that I have that look near mint I normally play them on something newer only. Playing the newer 78s with soft tone needles doesn't appear to hurt them, and I don't play the same ones over and over again so I don't worry.

Josh

With some exceptions, the old records are mostly durable and meant to be played a lot. I agree with Josh's viewpoint.

I always thought it was a Capital Crime (punishable by lethal injection) to play anything other than a pre-1926 disc on a pre-1926 machine. I certainly understand that most 78 records are cheap and plentiful but the focus of my personal record collecting is Victor discs made between 1905 & 1908. I also have a small group of nice, clean pre-1905 records and a sprinkling of earlier stuff like 7" Berliner & Zon-o-phone discs. Much as Clay expressed in his post, for me the fun of collecting is hearing the old period recordings on a machine that is also of the period. I only have one machine...a plain Jane (though very clean)VV-VI and I don't really want any additional machines. I guess that makes me more of a Victor Record collector. I try to buy records that I find humorous or unique to the period. I love Uncle Josh discs as well as the "racial" records, Collins & Harlan and Billy Murray.

I had no idea that machines and records could be switched around. I'll continue my current practices but appreciate the thread as very interesting and educational. Thanks for starting the thread Andreas!

I tend to draw the line to around 1950 to 1952. Most 78s cut after those years are so loud that an acoustic gramophone has severe problems handling them, even though it may not wear them out. Yes, I know that HMV made its model 102 until 1960 and that 78 rpm records were produced well into the 1960s, e.g. in South Africa, but I don't like the sound of a Capitol Frank Sinatra on my acoustic machine. I DO like his Columbia's with Axel Stordahl though.I liked Glenn Miller as a very young teenager (11 or so), it swung like heck but sounded dull, and one day I walked into an antique store and they played his 'In the mood' on an HMV 102 wind-up. That sounded so completely different, so much more life-like, that I was hooked for life. And still am. That one moment really started me collecting music and records.
A good 78 on a nice machine still can give me goose bumps. CD's are nice, but the raw experience of winding up your machine, putting in a fresh needle, carefully putting the soundbox on the record, giving it a little push if there is no run-in groove, the first slight hiss and then BANG! Pure bliss. One of the best things you can do with your clothes on. And your wife won't sue your for it either Even while I writing this I get goose bumps.