The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Every now and then I run across a record that will play on a modern turntable, but quickly grinds to a stop when I attempt to play in on one of my Victrolas (which normally play records quite well). The latest is an early single-sided Adelina Patti Victor Red Seal.

I can understand why this can happen if you try to play something soft like a vinyl 78, as the needle just digs into the surface and get bogged down, but not why it happens with the occassonial old acoustic recording.

Does anyone else experience this and, if so, do you know why it happens?

Clay

The friction of the record may be due to several causes, such as wear and the amplitude of the grooves. The acoustic records often don't drag down a weak motor as much as electric recordings. Some reproducers have stiffer diaphragms or hard gaskets which affect "compliance". Try a different reproducer and a "soft" needle instead of a "loud" one. Make sure your motor is lubed and in good adjustment.

In this case the story is the same on 3 different phonographs, all of which have serviced motors and reproducers in good condition--one with a very strong 4-spring. This particular record is quite worn though, so that could possible be it, although I have had the same thing occur with some that did not appear badly worn.

Perhaps I should also mentioned that any records I acquire are carefully cleaned before playing and that with records that have demonstrated this tendency going from a loud to soft or vice versa makes no difference. This is not a common occurrence--perhaps one out of a hundred records I might acquire--but happen it does.

Clay

I have a well-worn Original Memphis Five blue-label Columbia acoustic on which the very same thing used to happen. I believe it's a combination of the wear and particular mix of shellac doing this. Hit-of-the-Week records also often will not play properly for me on my spring motor phonographs (but will on those with electric motors, because of the increased torque). Of course I only use "beater" copies to play with steel needles, so that's probably part of the problem with these...

Could it be that these records have been stacked at the bottom of heavy stacks of records, maybe over time with very warm temperatures? Some of these records where I had this happen seemed to have more narrow grooves, so I thought maybe the shellack softened and expanded into the grooves over time when stored under these conditions? I've seen even the structure of fabric impressed on the surface of records when the fabric was supposed to protect the records while being shipped from abroad. Just a thought...
Andreas

beaumonde wrote:Could it be that these records have been stacked at the bottom of heavy stacks of records, maybe over time with very warm temperatures?

An interesting though Andreas. I keep mine upright on shelves, but of course these old records come to us with a long, generally unknown, history and many have undoubtedly suffered neglect over time.

Clay

I experienced a similar problem when playing records on my HMV 101. It drags not only on worn records, but also on some more recent 78's (from the 1940's), and especially during loud passages. On my double spring 130 every record plays through though, no matter how worn it is. Both have recently serviced motors.

I've only experienced this once so far. I have probably played 125 or so sides on my crapophnone alone so far without problem, but "Yes, We Have No Bananas Today" on Bell label (I think) ground to a stop about ⅔ of the way through. This copy was already worn to the point that the grooves were already gray, so I assumed that was the problem. After it happened, I cleaned it with soap and water and played it again just to see what would happen. It played through without stopping or really even slowing down. Maybe it was played repeatedly with a dull needle, and the new needle I used sort of "cleared out" the groove. My best guess.

Josh