The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I took this Harry Lauder British series wax Amberol half way out of the box yesterday and as I did so there was a "pop" and this is what I had left. Sic Transit Gloria Harry. This really shows that there is nothing you can do when they decide to lose the will to live: it wasn't taken form a cool room and touched with a warm hand..it wasn't taken from a hot room and placed on a cool mandrel..it wasn't bumped or anything of the sort. But we have had an excessively hot summer and I have no central air. Maybe it didn't like the heat.
Jim

maybe its killed itself rather than be used by you

I wonder if these 4min wax amberols get more brittle as they age....

I have always steered clear of hem because of this very thing...but then if you want certain titles..then they are only available in this very fragile format.

I only have one, but it has survived being posted from Australia to the UK and then being shipped in the height of summer in a metal shipping container from the UK to NZ and it still hasn't broken.....just goes to show how fickle they are!

Wonder if it'll break if I dropped it

S-B-H

'Twas ever thus.......

Perhaps Amberols were a spin-off from Edison's attempt to enter the spy business: "This record will self-destruct in 10....9....8...."

Maybe if you had been a better friend you would have seen the warning signs that he was suicidal. I'll never understand what could drive an Amberol to self-destruct. If you need someone to talk to...I'm here for you.

Jim,

Since Harry Lauder often joked about the thriftiness of the Scots, maybe Edison pressed the cylinder from a very cheap wax!



Rocky

I've got a bunch of these and they do sound excellent if in good condition.

I rarely play them, especially the operatic ones, for the reasons cited.

I once pulled the lid off the box on one of my favorites only to find it in 3 or 4 pieces, no temp extremes or rough handling, or even any movement involved as far as I know. I've also had them fall apart in my hands and... of course sliding them onto the mandrel always creates a bit of suspense...

I was telling Jim the other night about it taking me 20 years to find a replacement of my wax amberol of Marie Dressler's "He's My Soft Shell Crab On Toast", I was delighted to finally be able to hear it again, the first one I had exploded the second I slid it on the mandrel and I electrical taped it together just to hear it (hey, I was 12 years old!). So here I am playing my second copy of this rare cylinder after doing everything possible to keep it from breaking, mandrel wasn't cold, cylinder wasn't cold, nothing. It was playing away on the Triumph with my model O and Marie was belting it out when about 2 minutes into the tune I began to hear an incresingly loud "Click", yup, it cracked while it was playing! I've decided I'm just not allowed to own a copy of this record.

Sean

Yes Amberols ARE self destructing. These are the only Edison cylinder I do not know positive the formula for, and obviously, it is better that I do not, it has been elusive. I do think these have lead in them, litharge and also aluminum, and some recycled gold moulded records. I also have a formula for a wax that uses ebonite, in place of carnauaba, I think Ebonite is hard rubber, and what would happen is the sulfer in the rubber would evaporate over time, making the records very brittle. I think that they have reached the end of there shelf life, I have one Amberol that is in good shape, the others, have cracks or have almost shattered! If I had a four minute recording stylus, and some interested parties, that would like runs of the Amberol records done by the Miller process, on hard epoxy,I could cut electrical cylinder masters flat from high def transcription, from a DVD master, or hi-fi VHS format to the cylinder master. I would like flat with no EQ and no filters, no scratch removal nothing, just a clean transfer, to make the copies, recorded at 0 dbm. Just an idea. I have thought about conducting melt tests with the Amberol wax and seeing what it is like in the melted state, I have quite a bit of broken Amberol records around.

edisonphonoworks wrote:Yes Amberols ARE self destructing. These are the only Edison cylinder I do not know positive the formula for, and obviously, it is better that I do not, it has been elusive. I do think these have lead in them, litharge and also aluminum, and some recycled gold moulded records. I also have a formula for a wax that uses ebonite, in place of carnauaba, I think Ebonite is hard rubber, and what would happen is the sulfer in the rubber would evaporate over time, making the records very brittle. I think that they have reached the end of there shelf life, I have one Amberol that is in good shape, the others, have cracks or have almost shattered! If I had a four minute recording stylus, and some interested parties, that would like runs of the Amberol records done by the Miller process, on hard epoxy,I could cut electrical cylinder masters flat from high def transcription, from a DVD master, or hi-fi VHS format to the cylinder master. I would like flat with no EQ and no filters, no scratch removal nothing, just a clean transfer, to make the copies, recorded at 0 dbm. Just an idea. I have thought about conducting melt tests with the Amberol wax and seeing what it is like in the melted state, I have quite a bit of broken Amberol records around.

I am curious how those epoxy cylinders are made. Does anyone know? Are the masters electrotyped as in the old days? Does epoxy shrink enough to withdraw from the mold? Do the masters have a different thread pitch to compensate for the shrinkage?