The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

This may seem like a dumb question but here it is: If you have an Edison cylinder phonograph that is equiped from the factor with 2/4 minute gearing, what reproducer did the factory provide with the unit? Now the same question but with an Edison accessory kit 2/4 gearing kit installed by the owner but purchased from an Edison jobber? And.... was the model K reproducer shown here considered an accessory item from Edison? Thanks, I have always been curious about this as many phonographs with the 2/4 gearing installed that I have purchased at antique shows, and/or on EBay over the years usually have the Model C reproducer which only plays the 2 minute cylinders.

On the first 2/4 minute machines from the factory were supplied with both Model C and H reproducers. Later models were supplied with the K, O and S 2/4 minute reproducers.

Model K was standard on Edison Fireside and GEM Model D phonographs

Also, IMO any dealer/collector selling a combination machine would likely include a C reproducer and sell any K reproducer he/she has separately, simply because they command a higher price.
Bob

I don't know if you've seen "Cylinder Reproducers -- a primer for the novice collector " -- http://www.edisonshop.com/reproducers/ducer.html -- but it provides a lot of useful information.

DS

When the 2&4 minute "D" series of machines was introduced the better machines, Standard, Home, Triumph, and Idealia, were supplied with both the C and H reproducer. The less expensive machines, the Gem and later the Fireside, were supplied with the K reproducer.

So is the combination K reproducer considered inferior to just having two individual 2 minute / 4 minute reproducers since Edison placed the K on the cheaper Gem machines? I did notice that the sound quality of my combination K reproducer is not as good as when using the C or others letters I own. My K is also totally rebuilt with new points, gaskets, etc. but still seems to lack the better sound quality in either the 2 or 4 minute playback position.

I don't think it was inferior because a good K is a great reproducer. I was just cheaper to supply one reproducer instead of two with the least expensive models. Jerry

I think due to the swivel eyelet on the diaphragm, there will be a slight deterioration in sound quality because it's one more point where sound vibrations can be lost or dampened, as it's not a solid airtight seal like a regular eyelet.
I've also heard people comment on being able to hear the stylus bar that is not in use rattling on the linkage during play, but I've never experienced this with my K thankfully.
I do think some K's sound better than others, and the only thing I can put it down to is that there must be less wear in the tranfer chain from stylus to diaphragm in some.
I've always been happy with my K & think any loss of sound quality is very minimal, and what you lose is made up for by the convenience of not having to change reproducers or worrying about damaging a stylus in the process.

A model K is simply a C or H with twin needle bars which is where, in my experience, the trouble comes in. When compared with a C or H, a K always exhibits a slight amount of rattle or extraneous vibration. This happens because only the bar/stylus currently in use is under tension, thus leaving the other one free to vibrate within the small amount of play available both at its mounting screw and at the link end. In other words, the idle bar is free to bounce around on its mounts. I have heard that in late K or maybe S reproducers a spring was added surrounding the link to keep the idle bar under tension. I have not personally seen this nor can I cite any references. If someone knows more about this, I would appreciate it if you would post that information.
BTW: I don't find this phenomenon objectionable or even particularly noticeable but it does show up in A-B comparisons.
That said, the K is a good reproducer. I have had several and they always sounded good after a rebuild.

Jim

The K reproducers also wear wax records more than the C or the H due to the additional mass in the vibrating system, which resonates in the middle audio range, producing a negative compliance at certain frequencies.