Columbia Viva-Tonal Phonograh??? Model No. 810

[fmblizz]

I am totally lost when it comes to Columbia machines especially internal horn models. I was offered a Columbia Model 810 the other day which is supposed to be in great orginal playing condition. The only thing I could find out about this machine is that it was produced to compete with the Orthophonic Credenza.. Does anyone out there in the community have any knowledged or
opinion on this machine.

The price seemed resonalble at only $300.00

Thanks in advance and Everyone have a Happy New Year

fmblizz

[alang]

From Robert Baumbach's Columbia Phonograph Companion II:
Viva-Tonal Model No. 810
Introduced in 1926 for $300.
This large cabinet was brown mahohany with an art finish ans flower design above the doors. Two doors on each side of horn slide into the cabinet when open. Four 12-inch brown cloth albums wre included, along with a 12-inch turntable, gold plated hardware (crank and escutcheon gunmetal finish), Viva-Tonal No. 15 reproducer, and three spring motor. This machine was designed to compete with the Orthophonic Victrola Credenza which sold at the same price.
Height: 47" Width: 33" Depth: 27 ⅞"

This seems to be one of the top Columbia orthophonic models. They are much rarer than the Victor models and $300 is a great price if it's in good condition. I would jump right on it, even though I would have to get rid of some other machines to make space.

Good luck.
Andreas

[estott]

From the ones I've heard they sound very good, though not quite as good as a Credenza- though the cabinet is more attractive. They're much harder to find though and that is an excellent price. The only problem is that the Vivatonal reproducer has a rebuilding problem- it requires a special rubber fitting which hasn't been reproduced. Some people have had success casting their own or using rubber washers.

[gregbogantz]

The Columbia 800, 810, and 820 machines have been discussed on this forum several times before. Check the archives. They are all essentially the same with different cabinet finishes and details. The cabinet is larger than the Victor Credenza and quite heavy. The horn is very large, but not technically as good a design as the exponential horn of the Credenza. Still, it is a very pleasant sounding machine - I have an 810. An 810 in at least reasonable condition is certainly worth the $300 asking price. Yes, the #15 reproducer uses a custom-molded rubber gasket/mounting part which is not available as a reproduction, so far as I know, and it will probably need to be replaced. But I and other owners have made our own replacements from rubber washers and some ingenuity.

[phonojim]

I had an 800 and can attest to the fact that they sound quite good although different from a Credenza. I think $300.00 is a good price if the machine is in good condition. It is difficult to put a value on these big Columbias because they don't show up on the market that often.

Jim

[David Spanovich]

As with the Orthophonic models, the large cabinet (US market) Viva Tonal phonographs were equipped with all-wooden tone chambers. (The UK market offered its own version of the Viva Tonal phonograph, fitted with all metal two-chamber horns, and later on, "Plano_Reflex tone chambers.) I've heard from several collectors over the years that they should be gone over, carefully, to make sure there are no seam gaps, etc. Once sealed, the large wooden horns perform very well, though as noted, with a different type of sound quality than the larger Orthophonic models. (Not to imply they are anemic, by any means.)

For comparison sake, this large model has a price tag several times the amount of the one you are considering. I'll admit it looks to be in excellent condition, albeit refinished -- http://www.intertique.com/VivaTonalRefinished.html

DS

[phonojim]

To add to David's comments, the American made 800/10/20 also had 2 chamber horns. They are actually easier to access to reseal than the Orthophonics are. They sound good and are quite loud but unfortunately, I never had a chance to do a direct comparison between my 800 and my Victor 8-30. The Columbia had been sold and went out as the Victor came in.

Jim

[gregbogantz]

The Columbia 800 series horn is not exponential and it isn't claimed to be by Columbia. They took out a patent on the split design of the large end of the horn, probably to get around paying royalties to Western Electric or whoever owned the appropriate exponential patent. Consequently, it is not an optimal taper and flare - it has mostly flat surface sections rather than curved sections which makes it piecewise tapered. The result is pleasant sounding, but it is a little tubby sounding compared with a Victor Credenza. It has distinctly less treble than the Credenza, and I find that the bass is also less accurate with not as good extreme bottom end and a bump in the midbass range. It rather reminds me of the boomy sound of the radio consoles of the 1930s and 40s.

By the way, the Columbia #15 VivaTonal reproducer used in these later models is not as good as the Victor #5 orthophonic reproducer. The compliance is lower and the tracking force higher which leads to increased record wear. The diaphragm is stiffer and more massive, and the frequency response is not as extended on either the treble or bass ends of the spectrum. I have made an adapter that allows me to use a Victor #5 orthophonic on the Columbia 810 which produces a better, more full-range sound than with the Columbia #15.

Still, the 800 series is pleasant sounding and I still recommend owning one of these big Columbias. If you have room for it - it's BIG. And get a friend to help you move it - it's HEAVY.