The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Here is an interesting program with the listing of various artists and in between, a demonstration of probably an Edison Class M phonograph at the town hall in Watertown, Mass on November 11, 1889. At the bottom of "Part II" there is a little note that states, "Any person in the audience will be allowed to talk in the Phonograph". The first pic is from a post card of the town hall to give you an idea of what it looked like.

Very interesting documents! It seems all the artists were local talent.

George P.

It would be wonderful if some of these cylinders were around, however, I am certain, that the blanks for this session decomposed , It was not until November that the blanks were formula 1029,so it is a toss up, beings blanks are seasoned for 30 days I doubt the good formula was used, previous to November 1889, formula 957 was used, which resulted in olaic acid destroying the recording during the summer. Good wax was not sold to December 1889, unless the 1888 non metallic soap compound was used, which while soft is quite stable, and during my own laboratory test, withstood about 25 playings with a model C, (reproduction blanks made from the 1888 formula, not actual 1888 blanks, heavens NO.!) I used a standard speaker recorder to record the 1888 style compound , and the sound was so close to the 1888 records that I was taken aback.

In addition, I'm certain that the blanks would have been shaved and reused for further demonstrations.

edisonphonoworks wrote:It was not until November that the blanks were formula 1029,so it is a toss up, beings blanks are seasoned for 30 days I doubt the good formula was used, previous to November 1889, formula 957 was used,

Do both types of cylinders (formula 957 and 1029) differ in colour? If so, which range of colour deviation did you find within both types?

Very interesting indeed. And the the lowdown on the wax formula is great.

JRT

Actually in reviewing my notes, I am in error, there is a possible for them to have been made on stable blanks. The 1888 non metallic soap ones, were the only yellowish cream colored blanks, after that the metalized soap ones would all be various shades of brown. The color of cylinders has to do with how long the compound is heated, and can range from bright white to almost blackish brown, depending on how hot the compound was. Stearic of the kind Edison used (bovine fat bases) by itself browns the more it is cooked, and my experience is that the early part of the batch is lighter than later parts of the batch, even with 3lb batches you can see the difference from early to late batches. . Here is a time line of the formula changes. Jonas Aylsworth, the man who developed the formula for Edison records, began making the first batches of cylinder waxes for the perfected phonograph, from 1887-mid 1888, natural waxes were used such as stearic,beeswax and Ceresine. The first solid Edison wax cylinder records, although somewhat soft, held together pretty well, with no affects to the surface. Edison Record composition number 871 was used Before December 1888, and the regular formula used, however after the natural waxes and was an aluminum based wax, much like the later waxes, except no sterate of soda, or parrifine, ceresine, or other tempering agent added. It was very hard and did not cut well, and wore out recording cutters and shaving knives quickly. So farther experimentation led to the idea that it needed to be softened to cut better, so Aylsworth developed Edison formula number 957 in December of 1888 it used oleic acid as a softening agent. 957 was the regular formula used at Edison Phonograph Works from December 1888 till May of 1889, and known as "Regular Wax" . It was found out that these records began to sweat in the heat of the summer, by June and had to be recalled. Olate of Soda was formed and was the cause of the sweating effect, of the olate coming to the surface, being drew out by moisture in the air. So more experiments had to be done, and Jonas Aylsworth had visions of losing his job. Aylsworth recalls these cylinders as being "dull and etched looking." Next came composition 1029, This was the classic "Edison Brown Wax." Formula and used with little variations up till the arrival of black moulded wax, and up to 1908 for recording blanks, for home recording outfits. The only Changes made, through the years,was to the aluminum elements from powdered acetate of alumina to sheet aluminum and without acetic acid. Formula 1029 used stearic acid,sodium stearate,aluminum stearate and ceresine as the tempering agent. Columbia blanks are lighter because the batches were cooked at much lower temperatures, than Edison around 300 degrees and that was about it, so it was cooked longer, but not as high temperature so the records were not as brown for the most part, and Columbia brown wax blanks did not have sal soda like Edisons, and that changes the color, as well. I have included a replica of the "yellow Paraffin cylinders" from 1888 and another with a variety of my regular blanks, along with one new black four minute blank, and a replica 1888 non metal wax blank. The brown wax blanks range from cream to vary dark, but are exactly the same amounts of components weighed within .01 gram. The color has to do with how long they are cooked and if they are cooked in cast iron, aluminum, or stainless steel.

edisonphonoworks wrote:The brown wax blanks range from cream to vary dark, but are exactly the same amounts of components weighed within .01 gram. The color has to do with how long they are cooked and if they are cooked in cast iron, aluminum, or stainless steel.

This is an important observation and matches with my autopsy of cylinders of 1889. It is not possible to base a chronology on the colour alone.

Edisonphonoworks,

Do your new cylinders have the ability to attract/grow mold as the originals do, or have you added anything to help preserve them?

Also, can you comment on the differences in mold between Columbia & Edison cylinders? I can't remember which, off hand, but, for an equal appearing amount of mold damage, one brand, (Edison I think), can still play reasonably well while the other is totally unplayable. It seems as if the mold is more superficial in one case and more deeply pitted in the other.

I have found that new blanks can become moldy, I left some blanks in a basement, (on purpose for tests) and they became moldy just as an old one, and this included the new British blanks as well. Although the new palm stearic developed a white and green mold, not as much of a white bloom. It took an extreme condition to make this a very dark humid conditions, in a non heated dirt floor basement, exposed to the air. Under normal use they would be fine. It seems to me, that Edison tried to use the highest quality stearic available, and Columbia did not use such a good grade, and the other components were different as well. Columbia wax, was a very basic brown wax formula, and a tad more aluminum was used to make them a bit harder, in fact you can easily shave and record black Columbia wax. Edison brown wax is made at a different heat application range than Columbia. Edison used higher temperatures to boil off some oils, and combine the components, The Edison molded records have copper, and zinc, pine tar, and a few other ingredients than Columbia making them a little more stable, and moisture proof, although I think the brown rust on them could be the copper coming out?? Yes I am sure that you are not able to date brown wax cylinders by color, for the above statements about heating properties.