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My parents decided to pass on their Pathé phonograph to me recently. It has been broken for decades. My father told me my sister wound it too tight and broke the spring. To clear things up I am a Quaker in Vegas when it comes to this. I started my research last night and into this morning (thanks Google). So far it's been like finding a fart in a bubble bath. Apparently Pathé wasn't a more popular brand it seems, especially models from the Canadian company. I'd be happy to just stumble upon a picture of the same model but no luck.

From my inexperienced examination of the motor I found that the spring chambers build energy when turned in opposite directions. When you crank the arm it spins both spring canisters at once so no energy is stored. I'm assuming the chamber next to the drive gear isn't supposed to spin when cranking...at least that's what makes sense to me just looking at it. Then when the motor is released the spring canister turns the main gear, operating the motor, operating the record plate. (If I'm full of it so far please feel free to let me know) The motor is manufactured by Meisselbach of Newark, NJ. and is stamped Motor No 17.

Any ideas of where I could look next? I'm including a link to photobucket where I've uploaded a few pictures of the phonograph. I'd like to tear down, clean and rebuild the motor with some fresh, modern lubricant. I'd also love to hear this thing play one of the hundreds of records my mother had in the bottom of it!

http://s34.photobucket.com/albums/d104/ ... honograph/

Thanks in advance for any information.

John

A symbol is being placed over the "e" in Pathé no matter what I do so if you copy the link into your browser you'll have to delete the e and replace it. Weird I've never seen this happen before.

http://s34.photobucket.com/albums/d104/elefntkpr/Pathé%20Phonograph/

Looks similar to a Pathé Model 7. Probably from the mid-late '10s or early '20s. Normally, there should be another reproducer that, when attached, the diaphragm is parallel to the tonearm so you can play laterally recorded records (ie: normal 78s you find at thrift shops and antique stores).

As for the broken springs, they usually need to be regreased after 100 years, as the grease hardens and cracks. The spring likely isn't broken, but has merely popped out of its holder. There are many services that can fix this for you, as it's not exactly a beginner's job.

New Owner wrote:Looks similar to a Pathé Model 7. Probably from the mid-late '10s or early '20s. Normally, there should be another reproducer that, when attached, the diaphragm is parallel to the tonearm so you can play laterally recorded records (ie: normal 78s you find at thrift shops and antique stores).

As for the broken springs, they usually need to be regreased after 100 years, as the grease hardens and cracks. The spring likely isn't broken, but has merely popped out of its holder. There are many services that can fix this for you, as it's not exactly a beginner's job.

Thank you very much for the Model number. I took off on Google with that and found a few more bits of information here and there, which is incredible considering the brick wall I hit yesterday. I can never remember an additional reproducer with this phonograph but I'm going to look into it.

I had read about springs coming dislodged but I figured the symptoms would be different (like it would build energy then slip), but then I haven't really put a lot of pressure on the spring either. I watched a video of a similar motor being rebuilt on YouTube and definitely ascertained the potential for complexity for the inexperienced. I have a good work area with some tools for small work like this but I'm leaning more towards having someone else fix this.

Thanks again for the information! I really appreciate it.

John

New Owner wrote:Looks similar to a Pathé Model 7. Probably from the mid-late '10s or early '20s. Normally, there should be another reproducer that, when attached, the diaphragm is parallel to the tonearm so you can play laterally recorded records (ie: normal 78s you find at thrift shops and antique stores).

elefntkpr wrote:I'd also love to hear this thing play one of the hundreds of records my mother had in the bottom of it!

Unless your mom's records were all Pathé, you'll need that lateral reproducer. If you find a Victor record (or something) in there and try to play it with a Pathé reproducer for vertically cut Pathé discs, you'll have further problems.

Wolfe wrote:

New Owner wrote:Looks similar to a Pathé Model 7. Probably from the mid-late '10s or early '20s. Normally, there should be another reproducer that, when attached, the diaphragm is parallel to the tonearm so you can play laterally recorded records (ie: normal 78s you find at thrift shops and antique stores).

elefntkpr wrote:I'd also love to hear this thing play one of the hundreds of records my mother had in the bottom of it!

Unless your mom's records were all Pathé, you'll need that lateral reproducer. If you find a Victor record (or something) in there and try to play it with a Pathé reproducer for vertically cut Pathé discs, you'll have further problems.

In my digging I found some threads about the reproducer. I believe I have the universal reproducer as it appears to match the photos and descriptions I found. There is a sleeve with a retaining screw but I haven't been able to rotate the reproducer just yet. Admittedly I'm not using any real force yet either. There are also about 50 assorted needles with pointed tips and rounded tips. She told me she played every record in the cabinet on this phonograph and there are all kinds from Victor to Pathé so it seems possible its universal. Going to look at this a bit more however before I get ambitious with the reproducer and arm. Especially since I read they can be brittle. I definitely underestimated the learning curve a little bit.

For the record I'm not doubting anyone. I'm reading up on universal reproducers as we speak and if I'm wrong I'll start looking for the lateral version.

You have a nice phonograph worth fixing up! Pathé was one of the lesser brands in America, but they are still common enough to find easily. I have four Pathé disk machines, three French and one American-made, but Pathé made so many models that it is hardly surprising that I have never seen a Pathé motor like yours. I can't quite make out the details of the motor picture, but it appears to me that one of the spring barrels is wider than the other. If that is the case, then it may possibly be a 3-spring motor. It not unusual for a single barrel to contain two springs. It would be unremarkable if one of the springs was broken. Since I do my own repairs, I cannot suggest a repairman, but I'm sure someone on this forum can. I have not gone shopping for Pathé springs, yet. You do have a universal tonearm, but the pot metal could be swollen if you can't rotate the head. To confuse matters worse, there are two kinds of Pathé records - the earlier records with etched labels or black paper labels with the red rooster logo are vertical-cut and should be played only with a sapphire ball stylus. The Pathé Actuelle records are lateral-cut and should be played only with steel needles.

VintageTechnologies wrote:You have a nice phonograph worth fixing up! Pathé was one of the lesser brands in America, but they are still common enough to find easily. I have four Pathé disk machines, three French and one American-made, but Pathé made so many models that it is hardly surprising that I have never seen a Pathé motor like yours. I can't quite make out the details of the motor picture, but it appears to me that one of the spring barrels is wider than the other. If that is the case, then it may possibly be a 3-spring motor. It not unusual for a single barrel to contain two springs. It would be unremarkable if one of the springs was broken. Since I do my own repairs, I cannot suggest a repairman, but I'm sure someone on this forum can. I have not gone shopping for Pathé springs, yet. You do have a universal tonearm, but the pot metal could be swollen if you can't rotate the head. To confuse matters worse, there are two kinds of Pathé records - the earlier records with etched labels or black paper labels with the red rooster logo are vertical-cut and should be played only with a sapphire ball stylus. The Pathé Actuelle records are lateral-cut and should be played only with steel needles.

Thank you very much Vintage Tech. That information was invaluable and this is one of the reasons I love the internet. Since my last post I've been looking at the motor and reading up on rebuilds. I'm pretty sure I'm just going to rebuild it myself. I may be getting myself into something, but I do that all the time and patience and research almost always save me. We'll see and I keep those interested posted.

John