The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Hey everyone, I'm new here at the forum, and new to the world of phonographs in general. I recently purchased a wonderful Edison Standard; cosmetically, the machine is beautiful and almost entirely original. Mechanically, it's a headache.

I don't know much about the workings of these machines just yet, I'm sure a lot of you will be able to help me along. The motor looks to be in excellent shape, oiled up and everything. Sometimes it plays through three records just fine, other times it won't even have enough oomph to get through a single play without slowing to a halt.

It worked on the second floor of my house, and stops completely in the basement. A friend of mine suggested that heat or humidity from my furnace might have something to do with it; the belt appears to be original, I'm not sure if that's much of a problem.

I've added clock oil to the screw and half nut, and the carriage guides. Before I open it up and begin tinkering with the gears or mainspring, I'd like to see if anyone has advice on machine upkeep and repair. It's possible that after 100+ years, it's just tired out, but then I don't understand why it works so well, sporadically.

I'll provide any info I can; pics, sound bytes, photos, etc. Thanks for all your help

Do you by any chance hear “thunks” while the machine is playing?

Perhaps the most common problems with phonographs that have not been restored is the condition of the springs. Over the many years since they were made, the grease used to lubricate the springs acquires a tar-like consistency. As a result when the spring unwinds the coils no longer smoothly glide past one another. Rather they stick to each other, producing a “thunk” when the pressure builds up and they suddenly release. That would be my first thing to suspect.

You can find a lot of threads here on that issue. Undoubtedly some of the Edison aficionado members here will also have some other suggestions too.

Clay

That's exactly what I hear once in a while! When the machine acts up and begins to slow, I hear a thunk from the case and the whole thing shudders for a split second. That doesn't occur when the records play through correctly, though.

Is there any way to remove old grease and save the original spring? I imagine I'd have to take the whole mechanism apart.

maxeight wrote:That's exactly what I hear once in a while! When the machine acts up and begins to slow, I hear a thunk from the case and the whole thing shudders for a split second. That doesn't occur when the records play through correctly, though.

Is there any way to remove old grease and save the original spring? I imagine I'd have to take the whole mechanism apart.

Yes, generally they can be cleaned, relubricated, and reinstalled. Some caution is required, though, as these are very strong springs and if you don't know what you are doing various body parts can suffer. I usually send mine to a professional for that work, but I know some here do their own. Do a site search for threads about springs and you should find a lot on point--including, if I recall, some links to videos of that kind of work being done.

Clay

Thanks a lot I'll take a look and see what I can find.

I also should've mentioned that there is a strange grinding noise when the carriage travels across. I tried oiling up the screw and guides, but it persists. I can't tell where it's coming from, but I can only imagine it's from the screw because there is no sound when the carriage is raised.

Without a record, the carriage travels across smoothly and doesn't slow, even with the grind. As soon as I put a record on, the added friction on the stylus seems to be enough to slow it to a halt. I don't think it's a bad stylus, because, when it does work, it sounds very clean. I could be wrong.

With any cylinder machine, it's important to determine if your problem is above or below the deck. I'd suggest the following:

Slip off the belt.

With the carriage in the "up" position so the half nut does not engage the feed screw, give the mandrel a spin. It should spin freely and make several turns before stopping. If there's a problem, it's time to clean and lubricate. If your machine is a "D" series Standard, the center bearing, if it's original, is pot metal. They frequently swell and introduce friction to the assembly. (I've resurfaced pot metal bearings but a lasting and better repair is an inexpensive modern replacement.)

Next, lower the carriage so it is in the "down" position as if to play a record. Once again spin the mandrel. It will not spin as long because the half nut is engaging the feed screw but it should spin rather freely and the carriage should move a little.

Next, check the belt pulley. The little brass wheel should be lubed and spin freely.

Next, install the belt. A belt that is too tight will introduce too much friction. A belt that is slightly too loose will cause the record to be hurky jerky.

Next, make sure the ends of the governor are lubed as well as the governor pads, (ALWAYS let the motor run down completely before removing the governor assembly. ALWAYS!)

If you've done all of the above, it's time to play a cylinder. It's here that the adjustment of the half nut is critical and the adjustment is very fine. A quarter turn on the adjustment is a gross adjustment. The half nut should engage the feed screw just to the point that it stays engaged and does not skip. If it is engaged too much, it will introduce way too much resistance and the machine will bog down. Not all machine have a little screw to make that adjustment. With early machines, you might have to delicately bend the arm. Sometimes the little screw holes where the half nut attaches to the bar are a place to make adjustments. You can loosen the screws holding the half nut to the bar, drop the carriage into the play position and will a little pressure from your finger, holding the half nut against the feed screw, tighten the screws.

I am always happy when a machine will play a cylinder while using a 14" horn. That should be your goal.

I hope this helps, Jerry Blais

Jerry B. wrote:
If your machine is a "D" series Standard, the center bearing, if it's original, is pot metal. They frequently swell and introduce friction to the assembly. (I've resurfaced pot metal bearings but a lasting and better repair is an inexpensive modern replacement.)

Is there any auditory way to tell if the bearings have gone bad? When the motor spins, I do hear a rattling sound from the works.

In lighter news, I just checked the belt, oiled everything up, and played several records all the way through. Sounds great. Thanks for all the advice

I was going to mention the half nut adjustment but I believe you have covered everything, Jerry. Great advice!

Another problem that I have seen is that depending on the model you have, there is sometimes a mandrel centering pin on the endgate. If not adjusted correctly, it will stop the machine in it's tracks. (Too much pressure when closed) Simple screw driver is all that is needed, not to tight and not too sloppy.. A drop of oil is always good at the centering point.

blizz