The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

A newer collector asked about playing two minute wax cylinders with an H reproducer. I admitted that I'd committed that transgression but also said it is not recommended. Has anyone taken a two minute wax record, perhaps one broken or chipped at the end in otherwise good condition, and played half way through the good portion and checked the groves? Thanks for your comments. Jerry Blais

Jerry, I have used an H reproducer to play 2 minute cylinders with no adverse effect for years. A C reproducer usually sounds louder than an H, because it rides in the groove more--but the difference is minimal. My first cylinder player was a Home model E with a diamond reproducer. I had 2 min wax and 4 min wax cylinders I wanted to play, so a dealer friend set me up with an adapter ring and an H reproducer, and I was in heaven! I know there are those collectors who would never even consider using an H instead of a C, but I have never had a problem. Unless you are a collector of the rarest of the rare of 2 min cylinders, the average collector, with typically common 2 min cylinders can use an H to play just about any cylinder they have. Now, I wouldn't recommend playing brown wax with a C or an H--just an automatic or Columbia floating reproducer.......unless they are later Columbia moulded brown wax cylinders which are just as durable as molded black wax cylinders.

Mike Sorter

I personally take the Edison Company's advice by not using a model H to play 2 minute cylinders. I unintentionally conducted an experiment by playing a brown wax cylinder with an "H" reproducer. I realized what was going on about 40 seconds into the playback. The unplayed portion still plays quite well, but the "H" reproducer really degraded the first portion. I can imagine that the Black Wax cylinders also degrade faster using the "H" reproducer (though not quite as fast as the Brown Wax). In short, I feel that if you care about preserving these things, don't break the rules that they came up with over a hundred years ago.

Regards,
Martin

Model H's have a smaller stylus designed for the smaller grooves on 4 min cylinders. This can cause the stylus to thrash around in the larger 2 min groove. I will stick with my model B for 2 min wax and brown wax to be safe.

I would disagree that four minute H or the four minute stylus of the O sound as good as a two minute reproducer stylus. I think the two minute stylus is definitely louder and clearer on two min records. This is true at least in the case of celluloid records but I can't see why wax would be any different.

Confession time. I have played 2 minute gold moulded cylinders with a Model N reproducer. Sounds AWESOME. I don't do it often, but if I ever wanted to transfer a cylinder over to digital using a microphone, I'd use this setup.

I have an audiophile grade magnetic cartridge on my "modern" record player for LPs and 45s. The cartridge uses what is called a microline stylus, which is basically a very very small stylus tip. The idea is that a smaller stylus can track a groove in greater detail. The difference is quite noticeable. It makes me wonder if the smaller model N (or for that matter, model H) stylus is accomplishing the same thing to some degree. And of course, the large N diaphragm helps a lot as well.

Hi,

I have a model N fitted with a 2 minute stylus, I did this so I can play 2 minute cylinders on my Triumph with the horizontal carriage. It does sound a bit louder having the larger diaphragm.

Regards Marcel

I do not recommend playing an "H" reproducer on 2 minute wax cylinders. The smaller diameter stylus exerts a heavier pressure PSI on the wax even though the floating fantail is still the same weight. Edison reformulated a harder wax for the four minute cylinders to try and offset that wear. You may play a 2M wax record a few times without perceptible wear, but there is no doubt in my mind that the record is being worn out more quickly.

Shane wrote:
I have an audiophile grade magnetic cartridge on my "modern" record player for LPs and 45s. The cartridge uses what is called a microline stylus, which is basically a very very small stylus tip. The idea is that a smaller stylus can track a groove in greater detail. The difference is quite noticeable. It makes me wonder if the smaller model N (or for that matter, model H) stylus is accomplishing the same thing to some degree. And of course, the large N diaphragm helps a lot as well.

You're not supposed to use microline styli on styrene records, which, as far as I know was used just for 7" 45 rpm records, because the tip cuts into the grooves. I also use a microline, but it's okay, since I rarely play 45's.

No idea how it relates to the thread discussion, though. Unless the issue is of a particular tip cutting into the wax.

Hate to throw this discussion "off track" as well, but I have to say that I'm a big 45 fan, and I play styrene records all the time with my microline stylus. I've never noticed any deterioration of the record at all. Maybe it's the light (1.4g) tracking weight I'm using. There are some styrene LPs out there, but these were mostly made in the 1950s. That is an interesting point though, because styrene is, in a technical sense, cheap crap that wears out quickly.


Hmmmm. Edison Standard Triumph Amberol Wax Moldy 78rpm Cylinder. Okay, now the conversation is back on track, in the decade where it belongs.