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For any who followed my post on the fake grafonola you will see I ended up purchasing a victrola VV 90 that made a "kathunk kathunk" sound after winding a while.

I had hoped that it was just a spring (or two) that had slipped their arbor or rivet pin but alas, after removing the springs from the barrel I found that the first spring I came to was broken at the rivet insert eye/hole and the second spring was well on its way to being broken, ripping slightly at the rivet hole. The inside of the spring barrel assembly was practically void of grease, just a residue was faintly left on the spring itself. After inspecting the full length I noticed that the areas around the eye hole were the only areas that has some rust starting and rust leads to failure of springs.

I am not much for waiting for parts and know from working on clocks that a spring will run reasonably well with just 80% of it's original length in a clock so why not a victrola that only needs 2 inches of its 17 foot length replaced.

I looked at some of my saved clock website notes and found a quick description of how to repair both victrola springs in about an hour.

Here is the link below to a basic description of how its done:
http://www.m-p.co.uk/muk/ryoc/doc_page27.shtml
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Basicaly,
from another repair manual for clocks,
Broken Mainsprings. — A mainspring that is broken close to the outer end may be made to do again by punching a fresh hook hole and filing up. First soften the extreme end in the spirit-lamp flame, and hammer it flat. Then, with a mainspring punch, or an ordinary flat-ended round punch, and a graduated steel stake, punch a hole in it. A round hole is as good as any. Broach out the hole aslant so as to leave a sharp edge outside to hold well under the barrel hook. With a rat-tail file open the broached hole oval and make it quite central. Then flat the spring end on both sides by filing to remove all burrs, and shape the end up.
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A detailed proccess(recomended) can be found at:
http://www.atmosman.com/spring.html
which states:

9) Repairing the Mainspring

Most times a mainspring cannot be repaired. The exception is the
hole end mainspring that has a break in the hole end. This is the end which
attached to the barrel tongue or hook.

After you have removed the mainspring, hand clean the broken end
to be fixed. Then cut off the end of the mainspring. I do this with a rounded
cut using heavy-duty tin snips. Heat the last 3 to 4 inches of the "new" end
until cherry read and let the mainspring air cool. This is called annealing and
will take the hardness and temper out of the mainspring allowing you to rework it.

When the mainspring has sufficiently cooled (about five (5) minutes),
file the "new" end until it is rounded and there are no burrs or sharp edges.
Then start the new hole. I use a mainspring or power punch but you can use
a straight centering punch and a hammer. Center your hole about one to two
inches from the freshly cut top of the mainspring end. I file the punched hole
to as close to the original size as possible. Even though this process shortens
the mainspring somewhat it should have no overall effect. That is because
most mainsprings are designed to run the clock well beyond the stated
running time (day, week, etc.).

Finally, I take a fine file and make sure that there are no burrs or
"edges" where both the hole and "new" end has been cut. You can go
one step further and take some Crocus cloth or 4/0 emery paper and do
some further smoothing.

Some prefer to harden and temper the "new" mainspring end but I
find that this is an unnecessary step. That is because the mainspring end
is not subject to the stresses and movements that would require further
treatment but each to their own methods.

Have fun but please take great care when handling a clock mainspring.
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From another clock article:
The cause of mainspring breaks has always been a topic of debate. The quality of steel and heat treatment of the spring can be quite variable. This is further complicated by the fact that one never knows how the last guy fixing the clock or over zealous winder-owner has treated it. Even tiny spots of rust can lead to failure. The ends of the springs where the central portion engages the winding square or the free end is anchored may not have been tempered properly. Anchoring points should have only rounded corners, the hole in the tail of hole type springs must be the correct distance from the spring end; the barrel hook must be properly formed. I carefully unwind and very carefully examine the springs from the clocks I work on. My experience except for one clock has been that the springs break at the free end. The one exception was a mid 1800's French carriage clock which had both the time and strike springs shattered in multiple fragments, like a piece of broken glass.
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I will probably get around to this today or tomorrow. I will let you all know how it goes.
The way I see it, a repair is not a replacement but a repair well done does allow for long term functionality and experience learned by the repairer.

If I had patience, spare cash and lack of DIY attitude, I'd just order two replacement springs. I still might have to eventually.

Cheers!

The few broken springs I have dealt with were broken inside the coil near the shaft or arbor. An outside break would have been too easy. It can be awkward detempering the last few inches of the spring on the indside without affecting the adjacent coils. I used pieces of galvanized sheet metal in between the coils as shielding to protect the temper of those other coils. I had no way to slip in a punch, so I next used a Dremel tool with a ball-shaped tip to grind a crude hole into the end. I used needle nose pliers to bend the end tight enough for the hook on the shaft to catch. Once wound up full, the soft end forms around the shaft nicely. A tedious job, but it worked pretty well.

Before I knew where to get parts, I used to snip off the end with tin snips, grind the end round, and anneal with a propane torch until cherry red. I drilled two holes one smaller than the other, about an inch and a half back from the rounded end, and filed the hole pear shape matching with the original end. I though find that Victor springs particularly get weak with age, I don't like to have the same machine in the shop ever again, so since I was about 14, I have always replaced the whole set of springs with brand new ones. I use synthetic grease mixed with graphite, as it should last many more years than Vasaline, or lithium grease mixed with graphite. I have though repaired springs for myself so I could play the machine until I could afford to replace the set.

UPDATE::

Springs are done. Easily cranks to fully wound with no slippage.

I heated the springs up before snipping to make cutting easier. About a minute or two over a natural gas flame until the steel goes from a blue to a dull gray.
Then I centered where I wanted my hole to be and drilled it on the drill press, a little on one side then the other. Easy and steady pressure.

I then profiled the end of the spring on a belt grinder/sander. You want to start the arc of the outer curve at the side of the eye hole and make sure there is just enough distance from the top of the hole the the apex of the arc to kind of swivel when locking it into the barrel from an outside angle.

Grind off any burrs and finish off with emery cloth.

You should be able to see a distinct blueing effect line at the point on the spring where the tempered steel meets the soft steel. It should be no more than 2 to 3 inches from the end of the spring.

One problem, probably mentioned in the reply before this one, is I think the springs are just too weak.

The thing that it did before repairing the broken springs was that it would get up to speed but as soon as I put the needle on the disk it starts to gradually slow to a stop. Take the needle off the record and it starts up again. I thought I just wasn't able to wind it enough before the spring slipped. Guess not!

I greased and oiled everything when I put the springs back in the machine, fixed the problem with the fast/slow speed knob so that it works and adjusts the lever on the governor.

If I'm missing something other than a weak spring I hope someone with some knowledge on the subject would drop me a reply.

I knew I said in the original post that I would probably have to buy new springs anyway, I just thought it would be because I did something to mess the spring up, not having the original problem I started with other than the broken spring but,, it dies when the needle goes onto the record and starts when it is lifted off....

Any advice short of putting my victrola over my knee and spanking it would be appreciated.

update2:

springs are still weak i guess bu after fully winding and unwinding about 10 times I guess the new grease worked into the springs and now i can play almost two whole songs on one winding.

Hi. After working on mechanical clocks a few a year for 40 years, taking springs out of barrels etc, I have always been able to form the centre of the spring to fit the arbor without heating. But the last couple of years, I have been swamped with spring-powered gramophones for repair, and I have had to increase my level of courage to get springs in and out of barrels without self-injury. I had made a very effective contrivance and attachments for doing clock springs, but wasn't confident to use it on the heavier phonograph springs. So I worked out a method for doing this, but I have been finding spring ends that have not co-operated, when I wanted to reduce the size of the wrap of the end around the arbor. I found that they just didn't want to be squeezed in, and immediately returned to the original size when the pliers were released.
So, along came my first attempt at heating the spring centre to anneal. I looked at several instructional clips online, and the message always seemed to be the same. Heat to red and allow to cool slowly, but don't bother to retemper, as it often ends badly.
The first attempt seemed to work, but I wasn't confident about the leaving the end soft.
The second job came along, similar situation. except, I have a friend who calls every few weeks for a chat. He is a retired boilermaker. His instruction I have tried ONCE ONLY to date, and it seems to have worked. I thought it a good idea to post it here, because it is SO DIFFERENT from other postings I have seen.

His instruction? Cut a small chunk of PINE or any other softwood, and place it somehow up against the part of spring to be heated. (I jammed it between inner turns). Now try to heat the end turn or two as evenly as possible, until the chunk of wood starts to smoke. Then let cool. That's IT. Nothing LIKE red heat. And for the first spring tried, it has worked.
He had used the method on larger springs in an engineering works.

I would be interested to see any comments in criticism, and I would hope that some are prepared to give it a try.

Another thing I wish to mention, After reading a few of T.A.Edisons instructional books, I have, as an experiment, stopped using graphite grease and graphite in oil, and am currently using graphite in powder form, with nothing added. In the hot climate we have here on the Tropic of Capricorn, we have been experiencing problems with any lubricants, greases or oils, thickening in a very short time. Many types have been tried. But I have used the powder on several and to date it has been successful. I thought there may have been a RUST problem, but I wash the springs finally in Shellite, X55, K55 which are supposed to be similar or equivalent substances, and as I filter and reuse, there is always a remaining oil film on the springs. The gusts of air in the coils of the springs tend to keep the powder distributed throughout.

Heating to red hot is probably overkill, but it's also harmless and produces a soft/annealed end. If your method yields a spring that can be formed and drilled then it should be fine. In any case, retempering is a "no no". The annealed spring end is not just convenient while reworking a spring end, it also makes the ends more durable and less brittle. Besides, if you heated the spring end, then quenched it in water or oil, you would most likely bring it to a maximum hardness and make it very brittle. In other words, you'll have hardened it. The rest of the spring is hardened & tempered. To achieve a tempered end is not something that's easily done without close temperature controls and processes. But, even retempering is not advised for spring ends.