The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Last night, I adjusted the speed correctly on my Amberol 30, and it sounds perfect, but alas, my Amberola 75 has some kind of weird Echoong going on. It sounds really eerie!! I think that I am summoning all th ghosts in my neighborhood when I play a BA on my 75 now. There is obviously something wrong, and it's not the speed any longer. What causes Echoing? A Bad/worn diamond? Sounds like I need a reproducer rebuild.. but I probably could get away with just changing a stylus..since the volume is pretty loud. Is a stylus change easy on the DD Reproducer..?? It does not look to bad, as I have never done one. Any Suggestions??? Anyone know what is causing this weird Echoing??

Signed,

Help.

)

Tony K.
Melbourne, FL

The echo means your diamond is bad and should be replaced. It may be chipped, and as a result
could damage your cylinders. I would suggest letting a pro handle the rebuild and stylus
replacement. Edison reproducers in general are much more involved than your typical mica
style lateral reproducers for Victor, Columbia, etc.

Yes it most likely is the stylus. The first step is to use a good penetrating oil Kroil is among the best I have used and put it on the ends of where the stylus bar pin goes through the weight on both sides. Make sure none drips on the diaphragm as this would stain, and delaminate it. Use a small brass rod, as small as the pin, to drive the pin out of the weight, if you use steel it will pean the end of the pin over, and not come out easily. Once the stylus pin is removed, you will want to remove the wight pivot screw, and take the weight off, the stylus comes off the silk link by alignment of the slot in the stylus with the end of the link , and it will come unhook from the link. Sometimes Echoing can be caused by the weight pivot screw being to tight, or binding so there is no lateral movement, and so just take the screw out, and buff it, and a drop of oil and put back in, you want the weight to be able to float horizontally as well as vertically, with ease. Since you have the reproducer apart, it would be good to order new gaskets, and a new diaphragm, and I would suggest the new "Million Dollar" diaphragm, it sounded great to me, even though it is totally different from the originals. Most of the reproduction ones, From the regular parts suppliers, use materials that look similar to the original but do not perform as well, the linkage being made of nylon, not silk, and some other paper other than rice paper. If the linkage from the stylus to the diaphragm are in great condition, I would use the original of course, but most of the the silk is just about to break, as it has rotted, although If the linkage is shot, measure the length that the link is and then take the old linkage out of the dome, and remove the eyelet from the dome and get some silk button cord, and make a loop , and put the free ends through the hole in the top of the button, and tie a Knot on the top, that will not go through the hole, you can even tie the knot and feed the loop down through the center hole of the button. Melt some shellac, and shellac the silk to the top of the dome, and you put the stylus hook through the loop, and twist it so that it is the exact length of the old link and put the weight and stylus bar pin back.

When installing a diaphragm pay close attention that the diaphragm does not touch the side of the reproducer cup, but is centered, when you put the retainer ring back, you want to clamp it down with just enough to seal it from air leaks, but not so tight, ans to negate the sensitivity of the diaphragm.

This is a basic rebuild of a Diamond C reproducer.

Thanks for the description of the reproducer rebuild. You mention using a small brass rod for driving out the pivot pin. Do you have a source for those? Thanks again.

John

You have to make it, a special brass punch, you star out with two tenths of an inch di. brass stock and turn down an the small end on a small lathe. You may be able to pick something similar up at a machinist store, or swap meet. Oh by the way, you really need to soak the pin overnight at least just to make sure, if the pin will not come out, I have had to dremel though the old stylus bar (as long as the stylus is certainly damaged) and removed it this way cuting the bar in three places, but I do not like doing this, as it is much better to save the original one, and have a new stylus installed in it. If you get a totally new stylus and bar, then make sure they also send you a new stylus bar pin, the hole on the new ones tends to run a little smaller in diameter through the stylus bar.

I may be stating the obvious, but have you checked the reproducer weight to be sure it swings freely within the confines of the pin limit loop? I have adjusted several reproducers that echoed because the weight was somewhat frozen by a pivot screw that was too tight.

Does anyone realize that there are two current threads regarding this issue? Potentially a confusing situation when some people post to one thread and some to the other. This is what I posted to the other thread yesterday:

I agree that the cause of echo issues on a diamond reproducer is likely to be a problem with the lateral movement of the weight. The weight should move back-and-forth (side-to-side)very easily and smoothly with little resistance and no binding. Loosening the screw slightly may help but the real answer is to remove the weight, clean and lube the pivot shaft and hole and reassemble the unit. I have seen a couple of reproducers where there was not enough clearance and tightening the screw completely would cause binding.
Also, make sure the stylus bar itself moves freely (vertically only). I once repaired a Diamond C where the potmetal stylus bar mounts had swollen slightly and I had to dress the inside surfaces of the mounting flanges to free it up.
If you need advice on disassembly/reassembly one of us can advise you about that.
If this doesn't work, then the stylus is likely the problem. You can get new stylus/bar assemblies from a number of suppliers. The price, I believe, is in the neighborhood of $100.00. I know that Ron Sitko (518-371-8549) carries them.

Jim