The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Anybody have seen needles like this?
I think they are called osmium tipped needles.
Any truth to 3000 plays? How about damage to the record?

While on this topic I also found these:
Now these are original HMV needles, these should be OK on records?

Both these needles were designed to be used with light weight electric pick-ups.
Used under the excessive weight of an acoustic machines heavy tonearm & soundbox, these very quickly ruin records.

gramophoneshane wrote:Both these needles were designed to be used with light weight electric pick-ups.
Used under the excessive weight of an acoustic machines heavy tonearm & soundbox, these very quickly ruin records.

They are both metal needles, right?
By the way, I've also seen some bronze needles, which I found strange. Do you know their characteristics?

As already stated, these type of needles are for a light electric pickup & jukeboxes. The last pic shows yellow painted ones. There is a green version as well. Needles are not made of bronze but, may have had a bronze finish as a gimmick. All needles per se are made of steel. Tungstone needles were and are used for multi-play and without harm to records. See the "Everplay" thread on this. There are also a few posts in "tips & Tech" discussing the pros & cons with new and old needles. Also, where one can buy needles from different sources today.

amrcg wrote:

gramophoneshane wrote:Both these needles were designed to be used with light weight electric pick-ups.
Used under the excessive weight of an acoustic machines heavy tonearm & soundbox, these very quickly ruin records.

They are both metal needles, right?
By the way, I've also seen some bronze needles, which I found strange. Do you know their characteristics?

Yes, both are metal. The Pfanstiehl needle has osmium tip, which is an extremely hard natural alloy, and the HMV's are a steel core needle plated with chrome. Both metals are far too hard to use safely on an acoustic machine.
While some bronze/gold needles may have been a gimmick, or were used to colour code some German made needles that came in large multi-tone tins, most are again a form of long play needle, normally designed to play 10 record sides. These are again a steel core needle plated with various alloys, and were designed for use on electric machines. I have used these on acoustic machines in the past, but normally they'll go blunt by the 3rd record. I now only use these on my Garrard RC-65 record changer, but even then I discard them after only 5 or 6 sides to prevent record damage.
Tungsten tipped needles such as Victor Tungstone & HMB Tungstyle needles were designed for use on acoustic machines, but I'd have to disagree that they do no harm to records. The fine tungsten wire used on these needles, only sits in the very bottom of the groove, just making the wear harder to see with the naked eye.
These needles are no longer commercially made, and NOS is usually pretty expensive anyway, so most people tend to only use them on earlier record changers that still reproduced acoustically or have very heavy electric pick-ups.

Shane, I have to agree with you. I should have wrote that the "tungsten" type needles were sold under the belief they were harmless to records with constant use.

I ruined a couple of records when I was a kid using a needle of the long playing type on an Brunswick Ultona. I was dumb enough to try it but smart enough to realize what I was doing after only messing up a few sides. Shane, I have always suspected that Tungstone styli need VERY careful handling for the reason you state.

JRT

Tungstones and the Everplay will do just fine on a disc that has no wear present (grey grooves, ya know). If you play a side that's got wear in it to begin with, you can just watch the black dust build up as it plays. I've noticed this much more with Victor tungstones than I have with the Everyplay, which resides on my 10-50 almost all the time. Perhaps it has a slightly wider wire in it, but I've played the same 100 or so discs on it for years now (duplicates, naturally) and only two or three have worn further than they already were. If I want to play anything I truly value, the Everplay gets removed and a fresh half tone steel needle gets used, but that's rare since most anything I actually care about gets played either with modern equipment these days or on the EMG with a fibre needle.

Sean