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http://cgi.ebay.com/7-U-S-Berliner-241- ... 1|294%3A50

Sure would like to find a big box load of these!! or maybe even a small box!!

Wow that seems like a very high amount for a Berliner record. I thought the going rate for most titles in VG, E condition would be ~$100-150max. Perhaps this one is something special or a couple of Berliner collectors both needed this one to fill a critical hole in thier collection.

This moderate price for an 1894 Berliner recording is explainable for just one reason: it is a shellac-compound pressing of 1897 or even later. I expect that for some or another reason an old stamper or zinc original remained unused and was "recycled" a few years after recording.

The going price of a hard rubber pressing is at least $1500 in good condition.

Thanks for the information Starkton. You seem to know the Berliner record history very well. Could you elaborate on when was the switchover from hard rubber? Do the hard rubber ones look different? I'm sure other members would be interested too.

Valecnik

Emile Berliner received the first test pressings "of a new plastic material" from the Duranoid Company of Newark, N.J. in late October 1896. In the following months shellac based compound pressings "infiltrated" Berliner's product range, although he didn't mention it to the trade. In an April 1897 catalogue from my collection only hard rubber is mentioned.

It is quite easy to distinguish hard rubber from shellac. Hard rubber pressings are thinner and lighter. When exposed to light, hard rubber becomes brownish and dull. If you knock on shellac compound the sound is "hard", whereas on hard rubber it is "soft". Hard rubber feels warm when you touch it.

Starkton wrote:This moderate price for an 1894 Berliner recording is explainable for just one reason: it is a shellac-compound pressing of 1897 or even later. I expect that for some or another reason an old stamper or zinc original remained unused and was "recycled" a few years after recording.

The going price of a hard rubber pressing is at least $1500 in good condition.

I am a little confused. So the reason this went for over a $1,000 was not that it was an early hard rubber pressing, but that it was a later shellac-compound pressing but from and older unused original master from 1894?? are the shellac pressings more common than hard rubber or vice versa.

Rubber (Vulcanite)is a lot harder to get because they're earlier & don't survive as well as the shellac disc's.
I think there were celluloid disc's before the vulcanite was used?

solophoneman wrote:
I am a little confused. So the reason this went for over a $1,000 was not that it was an early hard rubber pressing, but that it was a later shellac-compound pressing but from and older unused original master from 1894?? are the shellac pressings more common than hard rubber or vice versa.

It went rather "cheap" for an 1894 Berliner recording in good condition because it was a later pressing. If it was an earlier hard rubber pressing it would have easily fetched $1500.

At the same time it is an oddity - I have never seen or heard of a shellac compound pressing of an 1894 Berliner recording. This explains the far above average price towards contemporary (c. 1897) pressings. By the way, the information concerning the pressing material came from the seller.

gramophoneshane wrote: I think there were celluloid disc's before the vulcanite was used?

Apart from a few test pressings in 1888, the only issued celluloid discs were marketed in Germany in late 1890/very early 1891. It was found too delicate for the heavy steel needle and soon discarded. The one and only example I have found is a little smaller than hard rubber pressings. Its colour is very similar to "white wax" - obviously Berliner mimiced contemporary white wax cylinders.

Based on the information provided, I think I can understand why this sold for as much as it did; obviously there are collectors out there that would want this record even at this price.

Starkton: Thanks for the Berliner history lesson—I appreciated that you shared this information with us.

— MordEth

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eBay Item #380107815022

7" U.S. Berliner 241 Cornets-Boston Belles Polka (1894)

Yoweee, when is the last time you have seen an 1894 Berliner?

Here is one, and in very nice condition, Berliner 241, a snappy cornet duet entitled “Boston Belles Polka“ recorded November 3, 1894,

W. Paris Chambers might well be one of the cornets, but there is nothing to corroborate it.

This single-sided 7" disc is in excellent-minus (E-) condition with plenty of surface shine! There is a slight edge dent that thumps lightly, but tracks fine.