The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

http://img14.imagefra.me/i56m/steve4232 ... _uctag.jpg

Does anyone know who made these soundboxes and approximately what date they are from? The one pictured above is an aluminium body with brass bezzel. It has a circular brass flange screwed into the back with a brass long throated tubing for attachment to a travelling arm Zonophone machine.

I can't find any information whatsoever about these particular soundboxes. Were they sold as after-market add-ons / upgrades or were they manufactured by a German company who bought and sold Zonophones after G & T acquired it?

D.R.G.M. is an acronym for "Deutsches Reich Gebrauchs-Muster."

The German branch of the International Zonophone Company, with a store in Berlin, registered the utility model for this soundbox with "advanced diaphragm" on 28 October 1901 in Germany. Registered feature was the fastening of the diaphragm by means of a pressed metal ring.

Many thanks, Starkton. So against my original suspicions and judgement, you appear to be suggesting that this could conceivably be the 'right' soundbox (and original one?) for the machine below?

[link removed]

Steve wrote:you appear to be suggesting that this could conceivably be the 'right' soundbox (and original one?) for the machine below?

[link removed]

The soundbox is a Zonophone make and contemporary, but if it is the "original one" for this specific machine I am uncertain. From the imprint on the soundbox ("diaframma progresso") I derive that it was sold by the Italian agency of the International Zonophone Company, The Anglo-Italian Commerce Company. Are there any decals or Italian dealer plaques on the case to support this?

By the way, your machine has the wrong crank. It should be curved, not straight. The "Zonophone" decal on the front is missing. It should also have a 75 cm brass horn. Is your horn made of nickeled zinc or nickeled brass? It seems to me that the machine is combined from parts.

Thanks again, Starkton. So it is of entirely German manufacture but possibly intended for and sold in the Italian market. Have you seen other examples of this soundbox with different language to describe "Improved Diaphragm"?

I appreciate that the crank is a bit questionable although it IS of part Zonophone. They did also produce straight cranks from time to time and this example has been repaired / restored. I would prefer a curly crank though!

The case doesn't appear to have ever had a transfer and no, there are no retailers decals or plaques anywhere.

The horn is 72cm long (excluding screw-in threaded elbow piece, which would otherwise make it exactly 75cm long) by 33cm diameter at the bell. As far as I can tell it is brass.

Steve wrote:Have you seen other examples of this soundbox with different language to describe "Improved Diaphragm"?

I cannot remember to have seen one, but I never focused on the inscription.

Steve wrote:They did also produce straight cranks

Only some back mount Zonophones were delivered with straight cranks. You really should try to get the correct crank.

The year of introduction "1905" found in Romfi is wrong. They took the date from a Zono price list of September 1905 from which they scanned the images. The price list was reprinted in The Talking Machine Review, No. 56-57, February-April 1979. Your machine, and all the other front mount Zonos listed in Romfi with a date of 1905, reached the German market in November 1902.

Only some back mount Zonophones were delivered with straight cranks. You really should try to get the correct crank.

Thanks for that. Have you any idea where I might find an original crank or do you know of any collector who has one available for sale?

The year of introduction "1905" found in Romfi is wrong. They took the date from a Zono price list of September 1905 from which they scanned the images. The price list was reprinted in The Talking Machine Review, No. 56-57, February-April 1979. Your machine, and all the other front mount Zonos listed in Romfi with a date of 1905, reached the German market in November 1902.

Thank you, Starkton. Once again that's priceless information that I can't find in any reference books!

Some years back very good reproductions of curved Zonophone cranks surfaced in the U.S. I have seen them several times on ebay.

Here is a drawing of your Concert-Zonophon No. 90 from ROMFI.com. The scan is taken from a reprint of the Zono catalogue of September 1905, but the drawing would have looked much the same in a catalogue of 1902. The description clearly states that the machine came with a 75 cm brass horn ("Messing-Trichter"). Your nickeled brass horn (spelled "Messing vernick[elter] Trichter" in the catalogue) is transplanted from the simultaneously offered types No. 50 and No. 110.

It is customary among collectors since decades to exchange or supplement parts. In this way your machine received a new turntable felt (was it actually red in 1902/05?!), a very interesting soundbox, a straight crank and a horn of correct shape and size, however nickeled - and somehow lost the Zonophone decal. In many cases, contemporary catalogue entries are the only primary source to reconstruct the original state in which the machines were delivered. It is obvious that your beautiful Zono was compiled by a very knowledgable collector. I could perfectly live with the nickeled horn, but in case the correct brass horn surfaces I would exchange it.

Interesting post, Starkton.

The thing that bothers me slightly in attempting to reconstruct machines from original catalogue scans is that we all know how unreliable those original sources of literature can be. It is common today for any manufacturer to submit a standard clause saying something like "We reserve the right to alter the specification without notice". Back in the early 1900's such legal terms weren't even necessary. HMV notoriously changed things all the time to suit whatever parts it had in stock.

The problem with Zonophone machines (today) is even worse because of the asset stripping of the various subsidaries by G & T and Victor from 1903 onwards. Parts were sold off to minor companies and some 'new' Zonophone models were created at the same time. The purpose of the take-over was not to continue with the Zonophone production intact but to acquire the recording repertoire and sell off bits of the company that had been a major competitor.

I appreciate that the scan states the horn is plain brass whereas elsewhere it makes a reference to nickel plated brass but I do wonder how easy a continental collector would have found it in the days long before the internet to replace the brass horn with a similar size plated brass horn? Certainly all the European models of Zonophones I've seen (from pre-1904) have had nickel plated horns with red interiors. I appreciate the US manufactured machines had plain brass instead.

The lack of a decal is also interesting. I'm fairly confident that the cabinet has not been repolished. I have owned HMV machines missing decals in the past. Some slipped through without decals prior to being finished. Maybe the same is true with Zonophone models.

I'll look out for the curly repro winding handles on Ebay. What sort of price do they tend to fetch normally?

The timing is prescient or somewhat fortuitous:

http://www.gramophones.uk.com/informati ... 0_hor.html

Note the identical winder and horn on this DRGM machine!