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I've never used, or even seen a tungs-tone needle in person, though I've seen pictures.

I understand how they work and why they can be used and re-used - but when do you know when they're finished? I assume they're done when the tungsten part is worn down to the steel "holder"?

If one buys a used tungs-tone needle, is it bad for the records (ie: like putting a used steel needle in)?

finally, how many plays does one get from a tungst-one? Maybe it's time I started bidding for some - though it seems awful to use one up when they're so scarce.

I've found some used ones between steel needles and tried them out. You are correct, you use them until they're worn down, because then the thick brass shank starts touching the record and skidding over it. Only problem with used ones is that the tungsten tip is often bent.

I personally don't think it's like putting a used steel needle in, because the tungsten wire is very thin and isn't tapered. I think the problem that some people reported is that this thin wire rides at the bottom of the grooves and may do some grinding there. Some people reported grey residue after playing with a Tungstone needle, but maybe that was just old dirt from the bottom of the groove. I would definitely stick to pre-1930 records with them.

I personally have never had any issue with them, but I am also not an audiophile and most of my records are well used. If I was a collector of expensive or "like new" records I would probably not use them. I don't have an automatic record changer, but some people here said it's a must for that.

Andreas

I actually have a small case of original Tungs-tone needles (individually holds each one in place). I've tried them before on my 1920s-era discs, and the leave a white scratch/mark in the groove. Fearing i was ruining my records, I stopped using them. Doesn't really answer your question, but I am curious, too, and if they were meant for later recordings, maybe. - Michael

The useful life of a Tungstone needle, in practical terms, is directly related to the condition of the records one plays. For unworn copies, a Tungstone may last up to 50-75 sides, but for average or worn copies it is much less. Also, I've found that Tungstones may increase the damage to worn records, especially stressed grooves, so it's really best to use only on E or E+ condition records.

You will know when it's time to change needles -- you will hear audible distortion.

Personally I prefer the sound of steel needles. TTs play with a light background hiss which is not to my taste. They are useful for record changers (like the 10-50), but otherwise I wouldn't bother with them (and they are now very pricy; no so much when I built up my stash 8-10 years ago).

In my opinion i dont think they sound anywhere as good as a steel needle. The main reason for these is obviously not to have to keep changing out the needle between plays or the Automatic machines like the 10-50.
I have many of these luckily inmy collection of the past 23 years of collecting. I dont use them realy myself. I have them in the needle tins in the holders in my credenzas but more for show than anything. I just dont think they sound as good as the steel ones. Like the post above said they ride the botoom of the groove of the record so you miss out in tone quality.
But thats just my opinion. They are getting harder to find, and for a new full case never used people pay big money for them. I wont buy them on ebay anymore because i have a good stash but if they happen to come with a machine i buy then so be it

HOW TO USE THE TUNGS-TONE STYLUS:
1. NEW STYLI
(Yes, NOS Tungs-Tone styli do exist. Expect to pay $30+ plus for the paper pack of 4 on eBay. NOS tins of Tungs-Tone? They can sometimes be quite pricy. Most people want mint tins more than the styli inside, so 'tin collectors' will often drive up the bidding.)

Simply take them out of the package and place them into your needle chuck. Take a worn out Victor electric disc, preferably a Hawaiian disc*, and play it through once or twice so the stylus can adjust to the groove width. Check the needle WITHOUT taking it out of the chuck for shellac residue by grasping the shaft of the stylus with your thumb and forefinger, pulling directly up to the tip so you remove the residue from the stylus onto your fingers. Worn records should produce a black dot on your finger the size of a pinhead. On worn records, this amount of wear is normal with a Tungs-Tone. Failing the availability of a worn disc, you may wind your motor to capacity, and let the stylus ride in the eccentric run-out groove for three to four minutes.
(CAUTION: I do not recommend playing valuable worn discs with a Tungs-Tone. If you must play them with an acoustic machine, use a fresh steel needle.)

Realistic expectation of plays from a new Tungs-Tone stylus is 50 sides.

2. USED STYLI
You must be very careful with used Tungs-Tone styli. First, inspect the stylus to see if there is a tip. If the tip of the stylus is just under the width of a penny laid flat, it's still operable. Alternatively, you can do a quicker check by poking the tip of the stylus into your index finger, but that's better left to people who have more experience with Tungs-Tones. Now, CHECK THE TIP WITH A MAGNIFYING GLASS! If the tip is straight, and you are sure there is ample tip left, then follow the procedure mentioned in part one above to train the stylus. If the tip is curved into a 'J' shape, is it done for. Throw it away to prevent it from accidentally being used.

'DOs' and 'DON'Ts' OF TUNGS-TONE USE:

-DO NOT play cracked or chipped discs with a Tungs-Tone. A chipped disc will remove most of the tip in two passes, and destroy the rest of the disc in one play. Cracked discs will do the same.

-Stick with VG+ to E+ discs while using your Tungs-Tone. Remember, these styli were designed to be used with new records, not worn ones.

-Switching between Tungs-Tone and steel needles frequently is not recommended. Every time you remove the Tungs-Tone, it will need to be retrained in the new position when you decide to use it again. Sure, they are interchangeable, but the bothersome task of retraining the stylus becomes taxing after several switches, and does nothing to prolong the usage of the stylus. I recommend using a Tungs-Tone only if you plan on playing several electrically recorded discs, (or only Victor discs,) in one listening session.

-NEVER use Tungs-Tones on non-Victor acoustic discs, especially Columbia discs recorded before 1925. Due to the grinding agents used in the shellac, they will ruin a Tungs-Tone stylus in 1 to 2 plays. Victor acoustic discs play fine with a Tungs-Tone, and I recommend using a 'medium' or 'loud' tone with your #2 or Exhibition.

-It is just a good practice to check the tip after every play by using the "thumb and forefinger" method described in point one. As stated, worn records will leave a small amount of shellac residue on the tip of the stylus. A very nice 'E' copy should leave very little, if any, shellac residue. Also, do a quick check of the last disc played to make sure there was no excessive graying of the grooves. Remember, a needle is easier to replace than a disc.

YES, using a Tungs-Tone is slightly complicated the first few times. However, you'll be very happy when you can just walk over to the machine and, after a quick glance, turn the record over to be played without a needle change. After a few uses, you'll soon have the hang of it.

*Why a Hawaiian disc? Like we need anymore of those in the world. I also suggest using all the Jessie Crawford and Gene Austin discs you can find to test Tungs-Tone styli.

Addendum: Rusted Tungs-Tone styli may be cleaned by soaking them in CLR for thirty minutes, then brushing them lightly with a toothbrush. The CLR does not effect the tip. The shaft rusts, not the tip.

Thanks to all - fascinating, but I guess I won't go out of my way to try a tungs-tone needle after this.

As to Hawaiian records - good idea. They pollute to much when burned, they don't biodegrade or compost...

Hawaiian records might be useful as skeet or frisbees.

I keep a stack of 'em on the nightstand by the bed to disarm home intruders.
If that doesn't work, I move on to the stack of I'll Take You Home Again, Kathleen on Diamond Disc.

You throw a Diamond Disc hard enough at a man... and there's a good chance he's not getting up!