Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Discussions on Talking Machines of British or European Manufacture
nostalgia
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by nostalgia »

I bought the machine Inigo, the photos are from my rented garage room.

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jamiegramo
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by jamiegramo »

This is a very nice decorative machine! It’s a Pathéphone 12.

The damage is a common problem with Pathés. The pot (junk) metal swells and then cracks and crumbles against pressure from the inner support tube. The YouTube picture suggests that someone has repaired this part with filler and then painted it silver. To provide strength they have made it thicker than it originally was. You can get quite a tidy repair like this using a hard epoxy or resin and then fine sanding to achieve a smooth uniform finish.

I don’t know of anyone making this part but member ‘emgcr’ had a similar, or the same, part made by 3D printing. You can see his interesting photos at the bottom of the first page of this thread, link below. Unfortunately the process is quite expensive so repair maybe a better option.

viewtopic.php?uid=1043&f=7&t=41802&start=0

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Inigo
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by Inigo »

If it's a local repair, I also prefer to repair with suitable 'liquid steel' repair mixture, etc, and even not painting it. I prefer to show the repair work (war scars) than to hide it. I don't know... I believe this approach is more respectful to the originality of the machine. And if someone later wants to improve the repair, the new or added parts are clearly identifiable! ;)
In my case, I have an eternal problem with a mazak Vocalion tonearm which has broken at the finest part, the end with the revolver mechanism where the soundbox elbow is attached. My last repair was a bit of reconstruction with metal epoxy and a standard pipe clamp of suitable size (½") added outside, with its horrendous chrome finish (the rest is gold painted) :D it works!
Inigo

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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by epigramophone »

Martin you have struck gold yet again. Not only a Pathé but one of their more expensive models, 175FF when new in 1910.
If this amazing run of good luck continues I foresee a mass influx of collectors visiting Norway!

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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by CarlosV »

jamiegramo wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:43 am

I don’t know of anyone making this part but member ‘emgcr’ had a similar, or the same, part made by 3D printing. You can see his interesting photos at the bottom of the first page of this thread, link below. Unfortunately the process is quite expensive so repair maybe a better option.

viewtopic.php?uid=1043&f=7&t=41802&start=0
I have a couple of original Pathé arms that survived with no prblems over the years. Indeed the toroidal interface is quite thin, but if not abused it will resist and survive, in a much better way than other pot metal parts. There are also modern reproductions of the toroidal interface, made in aluminum. I have one of these - it is quite well done, not distinguisheable from the original - see photo below. I presume someone made a batch of these in the recent past, and every now and then one of these show up for sale on French Ebay.
Attachments
Pathe 12 arm toroid.jpg

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Steve
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by Steve »

The Modele 12 is a worthwhile acquisition to anyones collection and well worth restoring. Congratulations!

I dare not ask what you paid for it. It seems you live in a unique part of the universe where no one thinks anything has a commercial value. What you pay for 3 complete machines wouldn't buy you a soundbox on Ebay in the UK.

The horn with your machine is very attractive but its not a Pathé horn, sad to say.

This machine should have either the 48cm flat colour horn or 60cm similar type, if the owner upgraded it.

The Pathé horns of this period had that distinctive crimped edge to them and a pressed groove in the centre of each petal. Your horn is likely of French or Swiss origin though.
Last edited by Steve on Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Curt A
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by Curt A »

All I can say is: "WHO HAS THIS KIND OF LUCK???" :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Seriously, congratulations on your finds...

Don't test your luck by licking that green horn... the green paint was made with arsenic. :? :shock:
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
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jamiegramo
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by jamiegramo »

Curt, the original horn paint looks so good and intact on the inside it may be difficult for Martin to resist a little lick... like mint ice cream :D but arsenic :o well you warned him!

I understand that Pathé machines were sometimes sold with horns other than Pathé ones outside of France. Certainly it happened in Britain. The horn may not be Pathé but could still be correct. I wonder if this horn has the correct screw fitting for the Pathé elbow it is shown with? If so I think this could suggest that this was the horn the machine was sold with. This type of fitting would limit the horn to just Pathé machines.
Last edited by jamiegramo on Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Steve
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by Steve »

.......or Columbia.

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jamiegramo
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Re: Horn gramophones to identify and discuss

Post by jamiegramo »

Steve wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:25 am .......or Columbia.
The Columbia fitting is wider.

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