A and B 250 Database Project

Discussions on Talking Machines & Accessories
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dzavracky
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Re: A and B 250 Database Project

Post by dzavracky »

Hi Fran,

let me add my information:

1) Model designation on the data plate? B250

2) What is the serial number on the dataplate? "SM - 4594"

3) What is the number stamped into the top of the motor-plate beneath the turntable? None-- I will attach a picture

4) While you have the turntable removed, how many oil “ports” are present on the top of the motor-plate? 2

5) Looking at the underside of the motor-plate (if you are able to) how many oil “tubes” are present? 8 (2 sets of 4)

6) What is the “Date” on the paper label stuck to the inside of the cabinet rear inspection door? I did not see a paper label on the back door of my cabinet

7) What is the stamped number on the “1st Horn Joint” located directly below the motor mechanism? none/unsure

8) What is the stamped number on the “2nd Horn Joint” just before the horn flairs out? (This one may be difficult to locate without disassembly, so please don't go out of your way for this one).I did not take mine apart

9) Is there a number conspicuously stamped into the cabinet on the bottom of the horn compartment? If there is; what is the number, and is it in the “Front” or “Rear” of the horn compartment? There is a number '4' in the back of the cabinet. also there looks to be an & symbol under the horn

10) What color is the motor-plate finish? “Reddish-Maroon”, “Chocolate-Brown” or “Black”. (Shown in pictures below) Reddish-Maroon

10a) Is there a "Tone control or Mute Ball" present, "Yes or No"; yes

11) What color is the pin striping on the perimeter of the motor-plate? “Gold” or “Gold and Blue”. Gold

11a) Is there decorative pin striping applied to the corners of the motor-plate? “Yes” or “No”. Yes

12) Is the operating lever (lowers the reproducer for play) mounted to the “Cabinet” or is it mounted through the “Motor-plate” (Shown in pictures below) Motor plate

13) Which type of start/stop lever configuration does your unit have? “Type 1”, “Type 2”, or “Type 3”? (Shown in pictures below) Type 3

14) What is the cabinet wood type? "Mahogany", or "Oak". Mahogany

15) Are there “Tone Slots” cut into in the sides of the cabinet? “Yes” or “No”. No

16) Is the horn painted in “Mahogany Wood Grain”, “Oak Wood Grain”, or “Black”?black

17) What type of record storage system does yours have; “17-A”, “17-B”, “17-C”, “17-D”, “17-E, 17-F”? (See images below) 17-D

18) Is there an “Official Laboratory Medallion” mounted to the turntable trim piece? If there is, please describe it in detail. No

19) Is there “grille cloth” present? If there is; what color is it, and please provide a brief description of the material. Yes, seemingly original or near original. Hunter green in color (on inside where not faded) I have a red cloth on mine that was replaced by some previous owner of the machine

20) Are there any dealer tag(s) or decal(s) present? If “Yes”, then please submit name, address, etc. and the location it is found on the cabinet. No

21) What is the "Cabinet Factory No." (if any)? This can usually be found on a sticker inside of the horn compartment of the cabinet. Please provide the “Form No.” and any other notable numbers if present. No. 10

22) Does your cabinet have a conspicuous “Lip” around the inside top perimeter of your turntable compartment? “Lip” or “No Lip”. Lip (I think?)

23) How tall is your Phonograph, measuring from the bottom of the right front foot up along the cabinet corner frame piece (do not include the caster if one is present, please) turntable compartment corner? (As shown “Image 1” and “Image 2” below) "44 ⅜"

24) Are there any sales receipts, shipping documentation, etc., original to the phonograph? Dated and serialized materials are particularly noteworthy. no
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Discman
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Re: A and B 250 Database Project

Post by Discman »

fran604g wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:25 pm
Discman wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:51 pm Here is what the paper sticker on the bedplate is supposed to look like:

Dave
Thank you Dave.

Would this have been on the turntable compartment trim piece? I don't believe it would've been on the motor plate, but I'm all for learning something new.

Fran
Fran, This sticker was glued to the wood frame surrounding the bedplate, usually located under the brake mechanism arms. They were damaged easily because of the location.
Dave

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fran604g
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Re: A and B 250 Database Project

Post by fran604g »

Thank you, Dave. I'd never seen one, despite all the photos in this thread and elsewhere. That's fascinating.

Best,
Fran
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"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.

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fran604g
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Re: A and B 250 Database Project

Post by fran604g »

dzavracky wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:45 pm Hi Fran,

let me add my information:

1) Model designation on the data plate? B250

2) What is the serial number on the dataplate? "SM - 4594"

3) What is the number stamped into the top of the motor-plate beneath the turntable? None-- I will attach a picture

4) While you have the turntable removed, how many oil “ports” are present on the top of the motor-plate? 2

5) Looking at the underside of the motor-plate (if you are able to) how many oil “tubes” are present? 8 (2 sets of 4)

6) What is the “Date” on the paper label stuck to the inside of the cabinet rear inspection door? I did not see a paper label on the back door of my cabinet

7) What is the stamped number on the “1st Horn Joint” located directly below the motor mechanism? none/unsure

8) What is the stamped number on the “2nd Horn Joint” just before the horn flairs out? (This one may be difficult to locate without disassembly, so please don't go out of your way for this one).I did not take mine apart

9) Is there a number conspicuously stamped into the cabinet on the bottom of the horn compartment? If there is; what is the number, and is it in the “Front” or “Rear” of the horn compartment? There is a number '4' in the back of the cabinet. also there looks to be an & symbol under the horn

10) What color is the motor-plate finish? “Reddish-Maroon”, “Chocolate-Brown” or “Black”. (Shown in pictures below) Reddish-Maroon

10a) Is there a "Tone control or Mute Ball" present, "Yes or No"; yes

11) What color is the pin striping on the perimeter of the motor-plate? “Gold” or “Gold and Blue”. Gold

11a) Is there decorative pin striping applied to the corners of the motor-plate? “Yes” or “No”. Yes

12) Is the operating lever (lowers the reproducer for play) mounted to the “Cabinet” or is it mounted through the “Motor-plate” (Shown in pictures below) Motor plate

13) Which type of start/stop lever configuration does your unit have? “Type 1”, “Type 2”, or “Type 3”? (Shown in pictures below) Type 3

14) What is the cabinet wood type? "Mahogany", or "Oak". Mahogany

15) Are there “Tone Slots” cut into in the sides of the cabinet? “Yes” or “No”. No

16) Is the horn painted in “Mahogany Wood Grain”, “Oak Wood Grain”, or “Black”?black

17) What type of record storage system does yours have; “17-A”, “17-B”, “17-C”, “17-D”, “17-E, 17-F”? (See images below) 17-D

18) Is there an “Official Laboratory Medallion” mounted to the turntable trim piece? If there is, please describe it in detail. No

19) Is there “grille cloth” present? If there is; what color is it, and please provide a brief description of the material. Yes, seemingly original or near original. Hunter green in color (on inside where not faded) I have a red cloth on mine that was replaced by some previous owner of the machine

20) Are there any dealer tag(s) or decal(s) present? If “Yes”, then please submit name, address, etc. and the location it is found on the cabinet. No

21) What is the "Cabinet Factory No." (if any)? This can usually be found on a sticker inside of the horn compartment of the cabinet. Please provide the “Form No.” and any other notable numbers if present. No. 10

22) Does your cabinet have a conspicuous “Lip” around the inside top perimeter of your turntable compartment? “Lip” or “No Lip”. Lip (I think?)

23) How tall is your Phonograph, measuring from the bottom of the right front foot up along the cabinet corner frame piece (do not include the caster if one is present, please) turntable compartment corner? (As shown “Image 1” and “Image 2” below) "44 ⅜"

24) Are there any sales receipts, shipping documentation, etc., original to the phonograph? Dated and serialized materials are particularly noteworthy. no
Thank you for your contribution! I'll record the data in the morning.

Cheers,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.

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fran604g
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Re: A and B 250 Database Project

Post by fran604g »

fran604g wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:40 pm
dzavracky wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:45 pm Hi Fran,

11a) Is there decorative pin striping applied to the corners of the motor-plate? “Yes” or “No”. Yes

22) Does your cabinet have a conspicuous “Lip” around the inside top perimeter of your turntable compartment? “Lip” or “No Lip”. Lip (I think?)
Thank you for your contribution! I'll record the data in the morning.

Cheers,
Fran
Hello David,

As I entered your data, I see 2 items worth discussion for clarification:

11a:
This feature appears to have been used on the A-250 in particular. Apparently the "fancy" corner decoration was eliminated (I have no recorded B-250 with this) with the introduction of the B-250. See image below.
Corner Decorative pin striping.jpg
Corner Decorative pin striping.jpg (224.14 KiB) Viewed 41 times
22:
The earliest cabinets used for the A-250 were originally intended for the Amberola 1, and as such the top perimeter of the turntable compartment retained a prominent "lip" that was later carried over to the A-250 Diamond Disc cabinets. This feature disappeared at some point after A-250 serial number 9672. Yours of course was produced later and this feature is not present. See image below.
The attachment LIP.jpg is no longer available
Thank you very much for your contribution,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.

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dzavracky
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Re: A and B 250 Database Project

Post by dzavracky »

Hey Fran,

I thought I had corrected my post about the fancy corner decoration! My apologies on that. Also thank you for the clarification on the "lip".. I was confused on what that would be when I was typing in the info. I am glad I could help with your database project! Do you have a general idea of when B250's were made?

David

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fran604g
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Re: A and B 250 Database Project

Post by fran604g »

David,

The B 250 was introduced in early 1915, and the C 250 was initially offered (in limited quantities) to the public by December of the same year. The B 250 was produced using the newly designed Type B mechanism; a platform which standardized all subsequent Diamond Disc Phonograph motors.

As a member of the Antique Phonograph Society, we have access to all the past articles published in The Antique Phonograph. A brief accounting of the A and B 250 models can be found in the December 2015 issue; Part 1 of my 4-part series The Edison Chippendale C 250 and its Successor: the C 19.

Cheers,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.

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