Hi all,
The Vic VI I purchased a while back doesn't look up to par. The stain color isn't consistent and the shellac finish is pretty much non-existent. As far as I can tell, the machine is from 1915 and came with a mahogany finish. I have a number of questions about the restoration process.
1. I would like to strip the old stain and remaining finish. Would paint stripper should I use?
2. Can anyone recommend a new mahogany stain that would closely match the original that Victor would have used at the factory?
3. From what I understand, the original top coat finish would have been shellac rather than lacquer. Is that correct? Also would Victor have used a clear or tinted shellac on this machine?
4. Can anyone recommend a good spray on shellac product that would match what Victor would have used?
5. At the phono shows and online, the Vic VI's are really shinny. I would imagine people are french polishing their machines. I was at the Victor Museum in Dover DE. None of the Victor phonographs had an overly shinny finish. I would say no to the french polish. Thoughts?
Thanks for your input!
Kevin
Vic VI Restoration Questions
- novkev24
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Vic VI Restoration Questions
The purchase of a Genuine Victrola closes the Avenue of Future Regret.
- ANNOUNCEMENT The Victrola Shortage Today (New Castle News, Friday, December, 20, 1918)
- ANNOUNCEMENT The Victrola Shortage Today (New Castle News, Friday, December, 20, 1918)
- novkev24
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Re: Vic VI Restoration Questions
Here is a picture of the machine where the speed dial has been removed. To my knowledge, this should be the original color under the brass circle. Looks much liter than the mahagony machines that I saw as the museum. They looked very dark browish/black in color compared to my machine. Could my machine be a different stain color?
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The purchase of a Genuine Victrola closes the Avenue of Future Regret.
- ANNOUNCEMENT The Victrola Shortage Today (New Castle News, Friday, December, 20, 1918)
- ANNOUNCEMENT The Victrola Shortage Today (New Castle News, Friday, December, 20, 1918)
- Curt A
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Re: Vic VI Restoration Questions
First of all, before stripping the finish, take time to clean it thoroughly to see what you are dealing with. My personal favorite for cleaning finishes is GOOP waterless hand cleaner (without pumice). It's cheap and available in the automotive department at WalMart. There are many other products that people swear by that are probably just as good, but this is readily available and the price is right. You might be surprised that after you clean the finish, it may be better than it appears. I usually put the GOOP on with superfine 0000 steel wool and rub it in thoroughly, then wipe it off with a clean cloth or paper towels. If the finish is determined to be missing in areas or is unsightly in some other way, then you may have to resort to further restoration. Zinsser orange shellac is a great match for the original finish and can be applied either over the old finish or over bare wood. It is easy to apply using a soft cloth, then wiping off any excess... It dries fast and is easy to work with. Brushing it on can leave brush marks, so I prefer rubbing it on. I haven't been able to locate orange shellac in a spray can - only clear shellac, although it may exist. If the color is missing on bare wood areas, you may have to match the original color with a mixture of stains...
"The phonograph is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.
"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.
"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife
- novkev24
- Victor I
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Re: Vic VI Restoration Questions
Hi Curt,
Thanks for the info. The stain is inconsistent in color all over the machine. It appears as though refinishing would be the most appropriate solution. The orange shellac seems to make sense. A section of the back of the machine has a fairly thick layer of shellac that is still intact. The color does appear to be yellow/orangish in appearance.
I would like to do some experimenting on a scrap piece of wood before messing with the machine. Do you know what type of wood the machine would be made of? I'm thinking if I was to test color matching on the same wood type, I would be able to get a closer match on the machine.
Thanks,
Kevin
Thanks for the info. The stain is inconsistent in color all over the machine. It appears as though refinishing would be the most appropriate solution. The orange shellac seems to make sense. A section of the back of the machine has a fairly thick layer of shellac that is still intact. The color does appear to be yellow/orangish in appearance.
I would like to do some experimenting on a scrap piece of wood before messing with the machine. Do you know what type of wood the machine would be made of? I'm thinking if I was to test color matching on the same wood type, I would be able to get a closer match on the machine.
Thanks,
Kevin
The purchase of a Genuine Victrola closes the Avenue of Future Regret.
- ANNOUNCEMENT The Victrola Shortage Today (New Castle News, Friday, December, 20, 1918)
- ANNOUNCEMENT The Victrola Shortage Today (New Castle News, Friday, December, 20, 1918)
- novkev24
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Re: Vic VI Restoration Questions
Just so I'm on the same page, is this the shellac you are referring to?Curt A wrote:First of all, before stripping the finish, take time to clean it thoroughly to see what you are dealing with. My personal favorite for cleaning finishes is GOOP waterless hand cleaner (without pumice). It's cheap and available in the automotive department at WalMart. There are many other products that people swear by that are probably just as good, but this is readily available and the price is right. You might be surprised that after you clean the finish, it may be better than it appears. I usually put the GOOP on with superfine 0000 steel wool and rub it in thoroughly, then wipe it off with a clean cloth or paper towels. If the finish is determined to be missing in areas or is unsightly in some other way, then you may have to resort to further restoration. Zinsser orange shellac is a great match for the original finish and can be applied either over the old finish or over bare wood. It is easy to apply using a soft cloth, then wiping off any excess... It dries fast and is easy to work with. Brushing it on can leave brush marks, so I prefer rubbing it on. I haven't been able to locate orange shellac in a spray can - only clear shellac, although it may exist. If the color is missing on bare wood areas, you may have to match the original color with a mixture of stains...
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The purchase of a Genuine Victrola closes the Avenue of Future Regret.
- ANNOUNCEMENT The Victrola Shortage Today (New Castle News, Friday, December, 20, 1918)
- ANNOUNCEMENT The Victrola Shortage Today (New Castle News, Friday, December, 20, 1918)
- novkev24
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Re: Vic VI Restoration Questions
Has anyone used stains by W. D. Lockwood? Their Water Based Mahogany Dye Family looks interesting. Possibly I can get a match using this companies product.
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/stor ... LW-WMAH.XX
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From the Victor-Victrola Page:
Mahogany is by far the most common of all finishes on Victrolas, and this veneer is readily identified by a fairly linear (straight) parallel grain pattern. The dark portions of the grain are usually wide and straight (not swirly), and may vary in width along the grain-line. Originally, all mahogany finishes were produced with a glass-smooth finish, but with age, many will "alligator" or become dark and rough to the touch. Most of the early Victrolas were produced in Red Mahogany, which was available in light or dark shades. In 1913, Victor introduced English Brown Mahogany, which quickly became very popular, and became the dominant finish by the early 1920's; by that time, Red Mahogany had lost its popularity.
I'm wondering if my machine used the English Brown Mahogany since it was made around 1915. Thoughts Anyone?
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/stor ... LW-WMAH.XX
----------------------------------------
From the Victor-Victrola Page:
Mahogany is by far the most common of all finishes on Victrolas, and this veneer is readily identified by a fairly linear (straight) parallel grain pattern. The dark portions of the grain are usually wide and straight (not swirly), and may vary in width along the grain-line. Originally, all mahogany finishes were produced with a glass-smooth finish, but with age, many will "alligator" or become dark and rough to the touch. Most of the early Victrolas were produced in Red Mahogany, which was available in light or dark shades. In 1913, Victor introduced English Brown Mahogany, which quickly became very popular, and became the dominant finish by the early 1920's; by that time, Red Mahogany had lost its popularity.
I'm wondering if my machine used the English Brown Mahogany since it was made around 1915. Thoughts Anyone?
The purchase of a Genuine Victrola closes the Avenue of Future Regret.
- ANNOUNCEMENT The Victrola Shortage Today (New Castle News, Friday, December, 20, 1918)
- ANNOUNCEMENT The Victrola Shortage Today (New Castle News, Friday, December, 20, 1918)
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Re: Vic VI Restoration Questions
Just a word of caution: consider everything before you strip a surface. And ask yourself what effect you are after. The word "restore" means different things to different people. Some people think "restore" means to make look new. This often means sanding down to bare wood and applying stains and a surface of a type that didn't exist back then. To others "restore" may mean to look used but well preserved. In either case, restoration is an act of imagination. That's why really genuine antique furniture with untouched surfaces commands highest prices--it is what it is. I am familiar with oil-based Lockwood stains. I have one that I think is a close match to what was used back around WWI. I think Constantine's sells it.I do not think it would be inappropriate to use that. Your phonograph would have had a shellac finish as other surfaces such as polyurethane did not come into being until (I think) the 1930s. At your hardwood store, you will probably find only one kind of shellac--orange. Shellac is a natural product produced by the lac beetle in India and Thailand. It comes in a variety of natural colors, even black. But you will need to go to a supplier for this and probably will need to prepare your own from shellac flakes. That is not difficult to do. I find an amber shellac very good and a good approximation to what was done back in the day. Well, it can be a lot of work, and it all comes down to how much time you have and what effect you are after.
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Re: Vic VI Restoration Questions
One more thing. I took another look at your picture. You may want to leave the finish alone and just apply a good wax. That is a removable coating and may even out the color, which I believe is the effect your after. I also note that the motor board is made from more than one piece of wood, which is typical as wider boards would have been more expensive. So back when your phonograph was made, a dark red stain was applied to hide the use of multiple boards.
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Re: Vic VI Restoration Questions
Hi jboger,
Thanks for the thorough reply. As for restoration, I would like to have the machine look good in my home. I have no intention of selling the machine, so I'm not that concerned about the deprecation in value. As for the oil-based stain you mentioned. Do you have the exact product name and possibly a link to the companies web site? I came across this company. Is this the Constantine's you mentioned?
http://www.constantines.com/bartleysgelstains.aspx
-Kevin
Thanks for the thorough reply. As for restoration, I would like to have the machine look good in my home. I have no intention of selling the machine, so I'm not that concerned about the deprecation in value. As for the oil-based stain you mentioned. Do you have the exact product name and possibly a link to the companies web site? I came across this company. Is this the Constantine's you mentioned?
http://www.constantines.com/bartleysgelstains.aspx
-Kevin
The purchase of a Genuine Victrola closes the Avenue of Future Regret.
- ANNOUNCEMENT The Victrola Shortage Today (New Castle News, Friday, December, 20, 1918)
- ANNOUNCEMENT The Victrola Shortage Today (New Castle News, Friday, December, 20, 1918)
- Curt A
- Victor Monarch Special
- Posts: 6830
- Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
- Personal Text: Needle Tins are Addictive
- Location: Belmont, North Carolina
Re: Vic VI Restoration Questions
Kevin,
The Zinsser shellac page you show is the correct product. I have used it on many projects and it works well right out of the can and I found it at Lowes. Orange shellac gives a rich tone to your project and is very close to the original. You can, however, mix your own color using flakes as suggested. If I were to use any stain on your machine, I would use a red mahogany and maybe mix in some brown mahogany to tone it... If you can find an old piece of scrap mahogany, that would be a good test surface...
The Zinsser shellac page you show is the correct product. I have used it on many projects and it works well right out of the can and I found it at Lowes. Orange shellac gives a rich tone to your project and is very close to the original. You can, however, mix your own color using flakes as suggested. If I were to use any stain on your machine, I would use a red mahogany and maybe mix in some brown mahogany to tone it... If you can find an old piece of scrap mahogany, that would be a good test surface...
"The phonograph is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.
"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.
"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife