Fixed Tone Arm Gramophone

[Starkton]

I think this design might date from 1908-ish but does anyone know for sure?

Patentee of this attractive little machine was the London engineer Joseph Margulies Landon. The patent plate lists UK Patent 10817 for "Improvements in the Construction of Talking Machines and Cases therefor." It was granted on 6 June 1913. Landon's next stroke, UK Patent 153948, "Improvements in and Relating to Gramophones", for an improved guide rod, was granted on 15 November 1920. This limits the production of your machine to the years between 1913 and 1920.

I don't have a drawing of 1913, but here is one from the 1920 patent. Does "your" guide rod differ?

[Steve]

Thank you for that information and scan, Starkton. Yes, my guide rod is indeed quite different to the one in the scan. What are the earlier patents for ie. 1906/7 registered ones?

[Starkton]

Thank you for that information and scan, Starkton. Yes, my guide rod is indeed quite different to the one in the scan. What are the earlier patents for ie. 1906/7 registered ones?

See drawings below:
19749, granted on 5 September 1912 for "Improvements in the Construction of Trumpets or Sound Amplifiers especially applicable for Talking Machines"
6497, granted on 20 June 1910 for "Improvements in the Construction of Trumpets or Sound Amplifiers for Talking Machines"
4507, granted on 25 May 1908 for "Improvements in or Relating to Talking Machines"
22522, granted on 11 January 1908 for "Improvements in or Relating to Talking Machines"

Reg. No. 580661 seems to be a design patent of which I have no data.

[Steve]

Fantastic information! Thanks again to Starkton. It might appear then that this machine was indeed made between 1913 and 1920. The early patent covers a design of fixed arm that was clearly intended to overcome the Victor/HMV patents - these had expired by 1910. Why carry on making them afterwards, I wonder?

6497 covers the folding horn which was used on a Primaphone floor-standing machine. I never realised that the same engineer was in fact responsible for both designs so even though the FTA portable, Primaphone and later Ediswan machines were apparently made by different companies, they all used the same engineer's patented designs.

BTW, has anyone ever seen such a horn machine as the one pictured in the bottom scan with the FTA design? Were any made?

[Steve]

I don't think from talking to one or two specialists in this field that anyone has ever seen an external horn FTA. The "portable" showing is this thread must be quite a rarity and a short-lived version. There are only two known to exist today of this pattern. There must be others out there, surely? I would really like to be able to compare this to another example.

[Steve]

Just resurrected this old thread in the hope that the scans provided can be uploaded again by member, Starkton. I copied these back in 2014 but sadly I've lost the hard drive used at the time and all the uploads have subsequently disappeared from the forum.