Victor Credenza

[Torjazzer]

I bet some gangster owned it and he kept his favorite six shooters and tommyguns hidden away concealed in one of Victors finest. Just a thought.



He references a wood sealant for the cracks....I'm assuming this would work for the holes as well. Is this just wood putty? Any specific recommendations?

Thanks again,

Eric

I'm sorry, I don't know. Someone more versed in woodworking might jump in here. You would need a compound that would dry with enough elasticity to comply to the slight shrinkage and expansion of the natural wood throughout the year.

[Cody K]

Hi Eric -- Congratulations on finding your Credenza! You're going to love it!

Regarding the weakness of the dashpots, Matt's advice is good: drop something like a quarter-teaspoon of neatsfoot oil down each of the tubes through the slots at the tops, where the flat bars slide in. There are leather discs inside the tubes whose mission is to control the amount of air in the tubes. Very often these have have dried out over the years, the leather is no longer supple, and the discs can't do their job. Often relubricating them with neatsfoot oil will bring them back to life. You can get this a a shoe repair store if you can't find it anywhere else. Though other oils may do the trick, neatsfoot oil is the traditional go-to for maintaining leather, so use it if you can. It's sold as both pure neatsfoot and a neatsfoot "compound", which as I understand it is a blend of neatsfoot and mineral oil. Pure neatsfoot might be better, but I don't think the compound version is much worse except that you wouldn't be able to know exactly what the blend is. Use only a little at a time, and let it sit overnight. I made the mistake of adding more oil -- too much! -- when the first dose didn't seem to "take" quickly enough for my impatience, and that resulted in a small amount of leakage from the bottoms of the dashpots: no big deal, but avoidable.

Having said that, in my case relubrication wasn't the solution to the problem, though it seems to be effective very often. Luckily, I found that there's a really good video on Youtube by a knowledgeable restorer who calls himself chilldude2007 that demonstrates in detail how to refurbish the dashpots. In it, he shows a trick of reversing the leather discs (which are actually sort of cup-shaped) so that they supply more resistance to the air inside the tubes. I did this, and my dashpots have worked very well since then. The business of taking the dashpots apart and re-assembling them seems complicated at first, but it really isn't very difficult. The most important thing is not to lose track of the few small ball bearings and springs within the assembly, so if you do have to resort to a rebuild, work (as always with small parts) over some sort of a tray.

Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKHdzIL0mLU

As far as the holes in the horn go, assuming they're just a small number of ordinary-sized screw holes, I would probably use either a good-quality clear acrylic caulking material or perhaps something like JB Weld Kwik-wood. I think the acrylic would be more likely to accommodate ordinary expansion and contraction of the wood due to temperature and humidity fluctuations, but really, if the holes are small it shouldn't make much difference. While you're working on the horn, it might be a good idea to remove the back panels of the machine, and face the back toward a strong light. Examine the horn from the front side to be sure that there are no gaps between the horn's wood strips; the light will reveal if there are. I took the extra step of pressing a very small amount of clear acrylic into the small spaces between the joins, wiping along the joins with a damp cloth afterward to remove any residue. While you're at it, it's also a very good idea to give the horn a treatment with a 50/50 mixture of glycerin and denatured alcohol to restore some moisture to the wood. Doing this made a marked improvement in tone when compared to pre-treatment playing of the same records, enhancing the bass that the Credenza is known for. I'm pretty sure there are details of how to do it elsewhere on the forum.

My Credenza was a beat-up wreck when I got it, having been painted blue, then green, then stripped and very badly refinished, so I had to strip it again and re-refinish it. Because it was such a total rehab, mine will never be a true "collector's" machine again, but it plays beautifully (especially after Peter Wall did whatever he did to the pot-metal reproducer, which couldn't be rebuilt) and I wouldn't trade it for any other. It's great that you're restoring a Credenza that, if you hadn't rescued it, might well have come to no good end. I hope you'll enjoy it for many years to come!

[E-M-H]

Hi Eric -- Congratulations on finding your Credenza! You're going to love it!

Regarding the weakness of the dashpots, Matt's advice is good: drop something like a quarter-teaspoon of neatsfoot oil down each of the tubes through the slots at the tops, where the flat bars slide in. There are leather discs inside the tubes whose mission is to control the amount of air in the tubes. Very often these have have dried out over the years, the leather is no longer supple, and the discs can't do their job. Often relubricating them with neatsfoot oil will bring them back to life. You can get this a a shoe repair store if you can't find it anywhere else. Though other oils may do the trick, neatsfoot oil is the traditional go-to for maintaining leather, so use it if you can. It's sold as both pure neatsfoot and a neatsfoot "compound", which as I understand it is a blend of neatsfoot and mineral oil. Pure neatsfoot might be better, but I don't think the compound version is much worse except that you wouldn't be able to know exactly what the blend is. Use only a little at a time, and let it sit overnight. I made the mistake of adding more oil -- too much! -- when the first dose didn't seem to "take" quickly enough for my impatience, and that resulted in a small amount of leakage from the bottoms of the dashpots: no big deal, but avoidable.

Having said that, in my case relubrication wasn't the solution to the problem, though it seems to be effective very often. Luckily, I found that there's a really good video on Youtube by a knowledgeable restorer who calls himself chilldude2007 that demonstrates in detail how to refurbish the dashpots. In it, he shows a trick of reversing the leather discs (which are actually sort of cup-shaped) so that they supply more resistance to the air inside the tubes. I did this, and my dashpots have worked very well since then. The business of taking the dashpots apart and re-assembling them seems complicated at first, but it really isn't very difficult. The most important thing is not to lose track of the few small ball bearings and springs within the assembly, so if you do have to resort to a rebuild, work (as always with small parts) over some sort of a tray.

Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKHdzIL0mLU

As far as the holes in the horn go, assuming they're just a small number of ordinary-sized screw holes, I would probably use either a good-quality clear acrylic caulking material or perhaps something like JB Weld Kwik-wood. I think the acrylic would be more likely to accommodate ordinary expansion and contraction of the wood due to temperature and humidity fluctuations, but really, if the holes are small it shouldn't make much difference. While you're working on the horn, it might be a good idea to remove the back panels of the machine, and face the back toward a strong light. Examine the horn from the front side to be sure that there are no gaps between the horn's wood strips; the light will reveal if there are. I took the extra step of pressing a very small amount of clear acrylic into the small spaces between the joins, wiping along the joins with a damp cloth afterward to remove any residue. While you're at it, it's also a very good idea to give the horn a treatment with a 50/50 mixture of glycerin and denatured alcohol to restore some moisture to the wood. Doing this made a marked improvement in tone when compared to pre-treatment playing of the same records, enhancing the bass that the Credenza is known for. I'm pretty sure there are details of how to do it elsewhere on the forum.

My Credenza was a beat-up wreck when I got it, having been painted blue, then green, then stripped and very badly refinished, so I had to strip it again and re-refinish it. Because it was such a total rehab, mine will never be a true "collector's" machine again, but it plays beautifully (especially after Peter Wall did whatever he did to the pot-metal reproducer, which couldn't be rebuilt) and I wouldn't trade it for any other. It's great that you're restoring a Credenza that, if you hadn't rescued it, might well have come to no good end. I hope you'll enjoy it for many years to come!

Wow, thank you Cody for your detailed post, I like those

I figured there had to be something better than crusty ol' wood putty. Something flexible makes sense. Funny you mention gaps between the wood strips. I think in the last picture of the horn I posted, in the upper opening towards the front, there's a line that I think may be one of those gaps..it could be superficial, but haven't examined closely yet.

When I was wiping down the inside of the horn, a few small pieces of the original joint sealer came with, it was brittle, and looked like dried tar. I've read about taking off the back panels and shining a light to detect gaps, which I plan to do during the much recommended glycerine treatment on the horn.

As for the dashpots, good advice on the tray and thanks again for the video link. I've had the same experience with removing/installing clock movements and faces...put every little tiny pin and screw in its own little container by location/function..otherwise you're on the floor with a flashlight

I've seen Peter Wall's name several times in reference to rebuilding the orthophonic reproducers. Is he still around doing this work? And if so, can you PM me his contact info? If he's not, another recommended person would be greatly appreciated.

Take care,

Eric

[estott]

You can seal the seams of the horn with a tube of DAP Kwik Seal. It's cheap, dries clear.

I've been advised by an experienced friend NOT to give my Credenza horn the glycerine job- it's certainly a mess I'm glad to avoid.

[Henry]

I've been advised by an experienced friend NOT to give my Credenza horn the glycerine job- it's certainly a mess I'm glad to avoid.

Sound advice . If you wouldn't put it on your violin or guitar, don't put it on the horn! (Although granted, string instruments usually have multiple coats of sealer and varnish---but not glycerine, AFAIK.)

[E-M-H]

You can seal the seams of the horn with a tube of DAP Kwik Seal. It's cheap, dries clear.

I've been advised by an experienced friend NOT to give my Credenza horn the glycerine job- it's certainly a mess I'm glad to avoid.

Did your friend say specifically why not to do it other than it being potentially messy? I seen more than one testimonial to its effectiveness. I'm assuming you're friend thinks the treatment damages the horn in the long run?

Thanks,

Eric

[need4art]

Well it's what I did with my Credenza and here in the very dry state of Arizona it made quite a difference in the way my machine sounded. One of the important elements to consider is that Tom said to use methyl alcohol which has less then 5% water verses what you would pick up at Home Depot which has much more water. This is the same brew that the Library of Congress use's to stabilize wood objects that have been in dry climates that show signs of cracking. I used to get gallons of methyl alcohol at Walgreen's and Walmart but now that it is used to produce "crack" I need to order it from a scientific source and it is much more expensive because of shipping. Lowe's carry's alcohol in quarts that is in a green can. This is very close in water content to methyl and I have used it for a number of projects. This is what I use to mix with shellac flake and the product that I get is very good.
Abe

[E-M-H]

Well it's what I did with my Credenza and here in the very dry state of Arizona it made quite a difference in the way my machine sounded. One of the important elements to consider is that Tom said to use methyl alcohol which has less then 5% water verses what you would pick up at Home Depot which has much more water. This is the same brew that the Library of Congress use's to stabilize wood objects that have been in dry climates that show signs of cracking. I used to get gallons of methyl alcohol at Walgreen's and Walmart but now that it is used to produce "crack" I need to order it from a scientific source and it is much more expensive because of shipping. Lowe's carry's alcohol in quarts that is in a green can. This is very close in water content to methyl and I have used it for a number of projects. This is what I use to mix with shellac flake and the product that I get is very good.
Abe

Hi Abe, if it's good enough for you and the Library of Congress, it's good enough for me. Thanks for the tip on sourcing the alcohol.

Eric

[mattrx]

Eric,
Be sure to grease heavily under the tone arm base and grease the bearings to seal the connection between tone arm and horn. I used black silicone caulk to seal the cracks in my credenza's horn and it worked well. Seal the cracks before moisturizing the wood to make sure the sealant will adhere properly. As for moisturizing, I used a spray bottle filled with a 50:50 mixture of glycerin and denatured alcohol (alcohol from home depot). Glycerin used to be carried in pharmacies everywhere, but not so much any more. I am a pharmacist at Wal-Mart and so I ordered a large bottle in for myself. Most places will order one for you if you ask.
Good Luck!
Matt

[Edisone]

Adv