Calling All Edison Experts: Amberola VIII & 2 Min. Cylinders

[fourforty]

The Montana Phonograph Company has a web page which claims that an Edison Amberola VIII (4 minute cylinder machine) could be made to play 2 minute cylinders. Here is an excerpt: "This is a 4-minute only model (though a quick, reversable modification allows 2 and 4 minute operation). The mechanism was based upon a Model D single-spring Standard or Fireside motor with minor modifications."

Here is the web page link: http://www.montanaphonograph.com/gallery/EdAmbTT.html

I have never heard anyone else mention that another Amberola combination machine was possible, other than the Amberola 1A. Are there any Fireside/Amberola experts out there who are familiar enough with the mechanisms to either confirm or deny that the "modification" is indeed possible?

[Jerry B.]

Many Amberolas used mechanisms from earlier horn machines, such as the Fireside B mechanism. The mechanisms always were provided with just the four minute gearing. The knob usually associated with shifting between speeds is there but the gear is only four minute. The question is could they be converted to also play two minute cylinders. You could take parts from a Fireside A and modify the Fireside B mechanism (always a four minute only mechanism) and it would work. You'd still have issues with the Diamond B reproducers used in the Amberolas. The diamond point reproducers will destroy any wax cylinder. I don't see why anyone would modify a machine that was never built to play two minute cylinders. In my opinion it is a waste of time and effort. Jerry Blais

[PeterF]

If someone was space-constrained and/or just disliked external horns, what's the problem? It's an easy and reversible modification, and one could switch out the Diamond B for an O (or just about any other reproducer with a ring adaptor), and be able to play anything.

[VintageTechnologies]

I think it could be done, but then you'd have a non-original configuration that never existed. Why not install a CD player instead?

[victorIIvictor]

VintageTechnologies wrote, "Why not install a CD player instead?"

Perhaps it is due to my own incompetence, but I have never been able to play a two minute cylinder of any manufacturer on my CD player.

Best wishes, Mark

[fourforty]

I like the idea of reducing the audible Edison mechanism noise, by way of closing the lid when playing cylinders.

Also being able to play both earlier and later cylinders at a price much below that of the Amberola 1A.

[Jerry B.]

Just because I wouldn't do it doesn't mean it wouldn't have value for you and others. I see your reasoning. It does muddy the water downstream for future collectors. A collector friend talked about taking Amberola V mechanisms and placing them in reproduction Opera cabinets. I believe there was talk at the Edison factory suggesting the same thing but it never happened. If the collector had done so, it would have been an interesting but make believe machine. Future unsuspecting collectors would be taken in by the unintended but fraudulent machine. If you do convert an Amberola to play wax cylinders, please leave a note inside stating what you did and threatening bad phono karma for anyone that removes the provenance note from the cabinet. Jerry Blais

[gsphonos]

My Amberola VIII has the 2/4 minute gear in place. When it was purchased by a friend of mine, many years ago, the family member of the original owner claimed it had come that way. Maybe there were some dealers who were asked to put in the extra gearing when the machine was originally sold, so that the owner could still play their collection of both 2 and 4 minute cylinders?? I should mention that my machine came equipped with an O reproducer!!!!! Unfortunately, I don't have the O reproducer in it. I have a Diamond B--and can play 2/4 minute indestructible cylinders and blue amberols. After my friend bought the machine, he took the O reproducer off to rebuild it. Unfortunately, he wrapped it up in a McDonald's bag. I say unfortunately because it was in his car for awhile, and he cleaned his car out, accidently throwing the McDonald's bag away with the O reproducer in it!!! What a SAD situation!!

Mike

[fourforty]

That's great... So the 2 minute/4 minute tabletop Amberola does exist in the wild, regardless of its originality.

Mike- since you own the VIII, I was wondering if you might also own a Fireside with Diamond B reproducer for sound comparison purposes? I am curious what the result would be for an "eyes closed" evaluation of the Fireside versus the Amberola VIII playing the same song (particularly having the Amberola lid closed). Come to think of it, if anyone out there owns both an Amberola VIII and a Fireside with Diamond B they could also do an "eyes closed" comparison using a 4 minute amberol. I would appreciate reading your opinions regarding mechanism noise and horn response of these tabletop machines.

I am a Victor Orthophonic owner, and play my 78s with the lid closed as suggested by Victor. Is there any original Edison literature out there stating Edison's preference for lid closed or lid open operation of Amberolas?

Thanks,
David

[phonogfp]

That's great... So the 2 minute/4 minute tabletop Amberola does exist in the wild, regardless of its originality.

Mike- since you own the VIII, I was wondering if you might also own a Fireside with Diamond B reproducer for sound comparison purposes? I am curious what the result would be for an "eyes closed" evaluation of the Fireside versus the Amberola VIII playing the same song (particularly having the Amberola lid closed). Come to think of it, if anyone out there owns both an Amberola VIII and a Fireside with Diamond B they could also do an "eyes closed" comparison using a 4 minute amberol. I would appreciate reading your opinions regarding mechanism noise and horn response of these tabletop machines.


Thanks,
David

It all depends on the horn you're using with the Fireside. (There's no choice with the Amberola VIII.) A Fireside equipped with a Cygnet will, as you know, knock the socks off an Amberola VIII horn all day - - lid closed or not.

George P.