Gem B - Modified gear cluster?

[SydneyAde]

Hi all, Season's Greetings!

Recently I purchased a Model B Black Gem from an elderly couple
who are living interstate. When I asked them about the machine the
lady said that it had belonged to her father, although they were unsure
of whether or not it was working now.

After two and a half weeks of travelling around Australia courtesy of
Australia Post, because of an incorrect zip/post code, but correct street
address it finally arrived at my home on Friday night and miraculously in
one piece.

Having given it a cursory clean, lube and going over, I notice that it
may have been adapted to play 4 minute cylinders. Is that possible?

The attached pics (upside down, sorry - just cant load them properly
no matter what I do - must be because I'm Down Under) .

The H type reproducer is also well and truly lodged in its receptacle.

I was hoping that I might get some advice on these questions:

1. Does it look like a modified cluster to play 4 minute cylinders?
2. Would the spring have enough torque to achieve this?
3. Is the motor capable of playing for 4 minutes with a modified
gear cluster, if that is what I have.
4. Is the reproducer lodged because its possibly oversize, or more
likely held there with some sort of corrosion over time?

It all seemed like a bit of a burden for the motor when it first began
turning, though once I cleaned it up a little and removed some of that
sticky oil residue it seemed to turn ok for a while. Also it has a fabric belt (linen?).

Thanks & Regards Ade

[Jerry B.]

Yes, that's Edison manufactured gearing to convert a two minute Gem to play two or four minute records. When it is flopped back it plays two minute and rotated forward it plays four minute records. I have after market gearing (not Edison) that allows my Gem C too play both 2&4 minute cylinders.

As for the ability of a little Gem to play four minute cylinders, a Gem B with 2&4 minute gearing is my machine of choice for special events. I've used it in schools and use it every 4th of July to play patriotic cylinders. It has never failed to play a four minute record with a full winding. Jerry Blais

[52089]

Here are your rotated pics.

[Jerry B.]

Many H reproducers were made with pot metal bodies. I suspect that's why it is stuck. It will come out. Some people put the parts in a freezer overnight and then remove it from the carriage by gently tapping around the edge of the reproducer. Give a couple of taps, move, and tap your way around the underside. Jerry

[SydneyAde]

Many thanks Jerry answering my questions, and so promptly as well.

Very much appreciated.

Ade

p.s.

Also thanks for the rotation of the pics.
I rotated them ever which way before uploading but still
they remain inverted.

[gsphonos]

Hi Ade,

It also looks like your 2 minute gear is missing. To play 2 minute cylinders you would pull up the 4 minute gear cluster (to disengage it entirely), and then pull the intermediate gear into place to play 2 minute cylinders. Google to see a picture of a regular GEM model B or A or C for that matter, and you will see the intermediate gear you are missing. The empty hole in the side is for that gear. I got a GEM model B exactly as yours--the same exact way. It could only play 4 minute cylinders. Someone had taken the intermediate gear and post off. You can readily get that gear, but the rest is the problem. My solution was to get a reproduction piece--but not what you are thinking. Look at your reproducer carriage. The round button and shaft that is used to put the carriage in the "up," or non-play position, or pull out to play a cylinder--that is the piece you need to get. It will fit perfectly into the hole on the side of the machine, and the intermediate gear will spin on it. There is so little clearance there, and the gear has to spin freely on that shaft. Don't ask me how, but mine works perfectly in 2 and 4 minute with that little fix. I haven't really explained myself well, but if you are interested in a more detailed description, just let me know, and I'll try to help! Or, you may get lucky and find that original piece. Somewhere I have the directions for installing the 4 minute gear cluster and then playing 2 and 4 minute cylinders. If I can put my hands on it, I will scan and upload. I love GEM phonographs!! Best of luck--enjoy the summer-time Christmas season down under!! I love Australia--have been 3 or 4 times! Wish I could get back there, but my wife won't fly!

Mike Sorter
Riverside, California

[SydneyAde]

Hi Mike

Thanks so much for your thoughtful and detailed information. After reading what Jerry had written, I continued
to fiddle around with the machine to try to get it running longer. I then discovered that if I flipped the gear
attachment there was a void, just as you have described, and thought, something was missing.

I have cut and pasted your helpful advice into a word doc and will use it as I progress with this little project.

I think I need to completely disassemble the entire thing, clean it thoroughly, lubricate it and then
reassemble. I also like the Gems because as a novice, they are a simple machine to learn on, yet
the great contradiction is that they are pure Edison genius.

I also love the US and Canada, and have travelled there several times, and will definitely return. The
US generally has a special place in the hearts of Australians, and although we are more British, we
consider you good people cousins. My Grandfather (an engineer) used speak very fondly of Americans
and I guess a lot of that was to do with their ingenuity, progress and invention that featured very
largely in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. My mother's brothers fought in both wars and alongside
the Americans, so in that regard, Americans were considered brothers…

Thanks again for the info

ade

ps.

You have very keen eyes Mike !

[Curt A]

Nice GEM... 4 minute isn't bad, at least to me, since I like 4 minute cylinders. When you are able to get your H reproducer out of the carriage (a little penetrating oil helps, as well), you should take a small file and carefully file off some material from around the edge of the reproducer - don't file the carriage - until you get the necessary clearance to easily re-insert the reproducer. Sandpaper may work for this, also. Once the diameter is reduced to its original size, it should go in and out of the carriage easily... darned pot metal.

[SydneyAde]

Great, thanks for the info Curt, I have also saved your advice in my maintenance file.

I also like the 4 minute cylinders given that many of the cylinders I have collected
to date are 4 minute cylinders.

Regards
Ade

[JerryVan]

Ade,

Thank you for your kind words about Americans. Conversely, I have met many Australians through the Model T Ford hobby. I can say that I have very much enjoyed your fellow countrymen. You all seem to have a great sense of humor, which I always admire in people.

Merry Christmas to you and your great nation.