Electric cylinder reproducer

[TinfoilPhono]

For info, the French Archeophone is no longer in production. To the best of my knowledge, the only ones that are in private hands, rather than held by institutions, are one that the inventor kept and one owned by a major US collector. A fabulous machine but unavailable to us mortals.

I have an Archivette and can vouch for the quality of the transcriptions it makes. I can't say that it equals an Archeophone, or John Levin's (not commercially available) new device, but it is simple and highly effective for an average collector like myself. It's quite well-made and sure beats what I used to get with a microphone in a horn, at a relatively modest price. Apples and oranges and all that, but I think the collector who created it is offering a real service to the collector community even if it isn't the finest device ever designed. For the price, it's a great little tool.

[RefSeries]

Have a look at Christer Hamp's excellent site at http://www.christerhamp.se/phono/. There are many ways of recording cylinders electrically, from devices which fit an existing phonograph through those based on such (like mine) through to magnificent purpose-built machines like the Archaeophone. Be careful, though - making these devices is addictive. I have nearly completed my Mk.III and am planning the Mk.IV.

Happy new year

Keith

[Timo Gramophone]

Thanks everyone, for all your advice and opinions on this subject.

Unfortunately I'm not really looking for the Canaphonic Archivette. As Mark said, the Archivette does not record what's in the grooves. It just electrically records the acoustic sound coming out of the reproducer.

I will continue looking for a good way to electrically record cylinders (which I can afford).
I am not really a handy person, and I think I would destroy my turntables if I would try to make cylinder player.

- Timo

[tinovanderzwan]

Thanks everyone, for all your advice and opinions on this subject.

Unfortunately I'm not really looking for the Canaphonic Archivette. As Mark said, the Archivette does not record what's in the grooves. It just electrically records the acoustic sound coming out of the reproducer.

I will continue looking for a good way to electrically record cylinders (which I can afford).
I am not really a handy person, and I think I would destroy my turntables if I would try to make cylinder player.

- Timo

well timo try to find sombody on the forum that can make a simple setup for you im sure there are a couple of people who made a elec, cylinder player before

as to the archivette i don't think it rivals the archeophone i have an archivette aswell as a set for cylinder playing and i'll choose a needle touching a groove anyday
the archivette cuts out the lowest and the highest frequencies so for post 1906 cylinders not a good idea
that doesn't mean the archivette is useless the sound of mold is a low rumble and a high hiss the archivette cuts these out and thus is able to play a cylinder that isn't playable on the electric set it won't be perfect but atleast its aidible again

i have digitized more than 50,000 recordings and the archivette has been a help with some of these

also the frequency range of acoustic recordings varies greatly and with digital editing hidden stuff can be found


tino

[Curt A]

"as to the archivette i don't think it rivals the archeophone"

Of course not...$99 compared to $22,000...? The Archeophone is obviously the Rolls Royce cylinder player/recorder... and for the price, it should be.

[tinovanderzwan]

"as to the archivette i don't think it rivals the archeophone"

Of course not...$99 compared to $22,000...? The Archeophone is obviously the Rolls Royce cylinder player/recorder... and for the price, it should be.

well i don't really have the hots for the archeophone either
as a multi medium device it will play any and every cylinder in existance you can re-center off-center cylinders as a carrier device for cylinders its sublime
its the playing part that sometimes irritates me
the needles that come with the archeo, are pretty pointy indeed the mu's are broad enough to play the Pathé center starts(discs) but cylinders are not made of shellac also the grooves of the earlier cyl(1888-1896) most are not round and shallow
the swi swi sound sometimes heard on recordings done with the archeo are due to the needle trying to cut a new groove

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why not use glass ball shaped needles or as i do use ediphone saphires??

the ediphone saphire is smaller than a standard edison groove but its rounded and its mu is way larger than that of any needle used by the archeophone or other medium to play cylinders electrically

i know 2 people that own a archeophone 1 works for dutch radio (sound)archives the other for a university they both now use saphires i salvaged from ediphone reproducers with much better results when epoxied in a good sterdy way it even manages to play cracked cylinders
the modern type needle diamond or saphire simply dont work on all cylinders exept the celluloid ones and the hard post 1906 cylinders with all the others its russian roulette it either works great or there is a fatal error-error-error-error when it digs into the wax and thats the end of a historical treasure

the real rolls royce of digitizing a analog sound format is using optical devices that scan the grooves anything touching a groove can damage a groove even the best fitting needle in the world optics don't.

tino

[Curt A]

"the real rolls royce of digitizing a analog soud format is using optical devices that scan the grooves anything touching a groove can damage a groove even the best fitting needle in the world optics don't."

It would be great if that technology was easily available and affordable. I wonder if there is any way to use the laser from a DVD player to play cylinders?

[tinovanderzwan]

"the real rolls royce of digitizing a analog soud format is using optical devices that scan the grooves anything touching a groove can damage a groove even the best fitting needle in the world optics don't."

It would be great if that technology was easily available and affordable. I wonder if there is any way to use the laser from a DVD player to play cylinders?

well i don't think it will be too long many audio collections and archives are now going over to the optical system and their archeophones are going to the attic
with this thing its the software that is really complicated
as for the hardware its basically nothing more than a super hq 3d laser scanner attached to a strong microscope
i think the public can buy hardware like this in less than 5 years or so and there are pretty good 3d scanners out there today atleast if yout not buying that maserati this year
the demand for hq scanners gets bigger by the year so in a couple of years a scanner of this magnitude will be out there
if you then combine it with a high mag, microscope and the software to make sense of it all then you will have a optical cylinder player and i'll bet it will be a damn bit cheaper than the 20,000,-+$ of the archeophone


as for a laser from a cd dvd those already exist yet you need a glass fiber to direct the laser and the glass rod at the end will still need to touch the groove so not much better than an archeophone but at aprox 5,000,-$ quite a bit cheaper there was a guy in eastern europe (i think) making these they can play both disc and cylinder
if they are still being made i don't know

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tino

[victorIIvictor]

Thank you, René, for the updated information on the Archeophone of France. And thank you, Tino, for the very interesting information about attempts to play cylinders using lasers. I am aware of the work that has been done at UC Berkeley, but I didn't know about the efforts by others in Europe. I too would happily consigned the Archeophone to an attic if I could find something even better and more affordable. Based on what I've heard from the UC Berkeley project, that time is some years off, however.

Best wishes, Mark

[tinovanderzwan]

Thank you, René, for the updated information on the Archeophone of France. And thank you, Tino, for the very interesting information about attempts to play cylinders using lasers. I am aware of the work that has been done at UC Berkeley, but I didn't know about the efforts by others in Europe. I too would happily consigned the Archeophone to an attic if I could find something even better and more affordable. Based on what I've heard from the UC Berkeley project, that time is some years off, however.

Best wishes, Mark

when the archeophone came out many attempts where made to either copy it or come up with a similar device
many types of elec, phono's are now out there some can still be ordered from their makers

with the digital technology on the rise we will see a similar development in the field of optical scanning and fiberoptics
5 years ago most of this technology was unheard of
now with the popularity of the 3d scanner almost going through the roof and rising. the demand for better , faster more HQ scanners is getting higher than ever that means prizes will drop when that happens amateur builders will step in
and i'm sure that day will be sooner than you think

if we compare the archeophone to the optical device that digitized the ishi cylinders than we see that the optical device is rather crude and simpel in buildup thats because the hart of the device lives in a pc in the form of software the archeophone was mostly hardware
with the uc project its mainly a stepper motor with a mandrel attached and a microscope laser scanner
its not like you will need tons of electronic parts like with the archeophone
its quite simpel a home build device that uses parts that are for now very expensive but in 5 years most of that technology will be availeble online for affordable prices
5 to 7 years ago a 3d printer would cost you 20,000,- us now the simplest versions will cost you less than 500,- us
its a waiting game thats fore sure! but one thing,.. it will happen.


tino