Nellie Melba Machine & Edison w/Oak Cygnet

[Curt A]

OK, here's the real question: Since there are only a few of these, and since there is no real sales history, the guy wants a reasonable offer - but what would a "reasonable" offer be?

[Raphael]

A "reasonable" offer should be one in response to an asking price. Inasmuch as the seller has some degree of phonograph knowledge, his asking for offers is an indication that he will simply conduct his own private auction. So, whatever initial offers are made, there is a low likelihood of completing a deal quickly, as he will then use the opening offers as a point of reference in his next negotiation with another potential buyer.

I get contacted almost daily by people who show me items and then ask me to make an offer. I almost always decline, because without a starting asking price, these are just fishing expeditions and a big waste of time.

Raphael

[Starkton]

Nellie has been re-motored.

Ya but Eric Reiss said they all have.

Nonsense. For example: http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... 4&start=30

Is there an actual difference between what's known as a 'Melba' and a 'Nellie Melba'?

There was no "Nellie Melba," but a "New Melba" of 1907 exists: http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/ ... ID=4288750

What interests me more is the type of wood of this cobbled together "Melba" (among other things, look at the break and the speed control). The case is certainly not oak. I always thought that the ebonized case is oak, same as with the olive green variant.

[Mr Grumpy]

Nonsense. For example: http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... 4&start=30

Don't shoot the messenger, I was just reading what was put in the ad (I should have put a winky face
next to my comment - Sorry).

I noticed the wood when I first saw it as well. Since it was going to be ebonized, I guess the material
beneath didn't really matter. It's hard to tell the type because of the poor quality refinishing job, but it
definitely doesn't appear to be oak. The green one posted in your linked topic appears to be oak as it should
be since the finish is not opaque and the grain is clearly visible.

That's at least one thing positive about a possible restoration of this machine,
all the cracks and holes can be filled and easily covered with the black overcoat. Unfortunately, they
drilled through one of the metal panels for the new motor's crank.

[Curt A]

After viewing Starkton's original machine and the one for sale near Raleigh, NC, I can only conclude that this is a cobbled up version and I think that this mystery is solved.

Raleigh, NC was the home of a "collector/restorer" named Brady Jeffcoat - RIP. Several years ago there was a large auction of his collection of cobbled up machines, which was promoted as a premier auction. He was notorious for "restoring" them with plumbing supplies or whatever he had available. One example was a Keen-O-Phone which sold for a high price only to find that Brady had changed out the original motor for something else. There were Victor machines sold that had plumbing elbows with Bondo and silver paint for horn elbows or hardware "L" brackets for backmounts. As quoted in the sale - Mr. Jeffcoat loved to get these old machines back to running condition (they didn't mention that it wasn't important to him "HOW" they got running again). He would/could definitely buy a Melba in whatever condition for "restoration".

Brady was a guy who had lots of money and could have restored these to their original condition, since price was no object. However, it was his cheap nature that obviously made him use whatever he had laying around for restoration. Unfortunately, a large number of rare machines ended up in his house and the ones that needed work were subjected to his unique restoration methods. During his life, he would never sell any of his machines and hoarded them. They were sold after his death (or possibly when he went to a nursing home) and some of his monstrosities were brought to light. Kind of reminds me of Dr. Frankenstein...

[Starkton]

Mr Grumpy, I didn't intend to offend you (my apologies), my acerbic comment referred to the seller only.

Curt A, what a vibrant insight into the phonograph slaughterhouse of Mr. Jeffcoat. But as the seller assures us his Melba has been in a "well-to-do family" since "it was purchased about 1904" we are on the safe side, isn't it ???!!!

[gramophone78]

I believe the term "Melba" stems from modern day collectors. The model is really a Monarch de Luxe 15b (Germany). Although, the numbering gets confusing depending on country of sale.

[Starkton]

I believe the term "Melba" stems from modern day collectors. The model is really a Monarch de Luxe 15b (Germany). Although, the numbering gets confusing depending on country of sale.

Although introduced as "Nr. 15b" and "de Luxe Nr. 15b", from December 1904 the British branch named this model "Melba." It also appeared in the respective catalogues under this designation. The French branch named it *De Luxe called "Melba"*. But in the German branch and its sub branches, as well as in the Italian branch and perhaps elsewhere, the well-established "Nr. 15b" and "de Luxe Nr. 15b" remained. From 1905, perhaps earlier, it received the additional wording "Monarch."

[gramophone78]

I believe the term "Melba" stems from modern day collectors. The model is really a Monarch de Luxe 15b (Germany). Although, the numbering gets confusing depending on country of sale.

Although introduced as "Nr. 15b" or "de Luxe Nr. 15b", from December 1904 the British, and some time later the French, branch named this model "Melba." It also appeared in the catalogues under this designation. But in the German branch and its sub branches, as well as in the Italian branch and perhaps elsewhere, the well-established "Nr. 15b" or "de Luxe Nr. 15b" remained. From 1905, perhaps earlier, it received the additional wording "Monarch."

Interesting. So, this would then explain the "Melba" wording used on the reproducer. Since the reproducer is essentially a nickel plated Victor #10....I would have to assume pre-1905 also..??.

I would love to see a period English/French ad or catalog page showing the designation "Melba" used.

I am not aware of Miss. Melba receiving any compensation for her imaged to be used. Was she..??.

Perhaps the image is assumed to be Melba by modern day collectors based on the period designation...??.

[Starkton]

Interesting. So, this would then explain the "Melba" wording used on the reproducer. Since the reproducer is essentially a nickel plated Victor #10....I would have to assume pre-1905 also..??.

I would love to see a period English/French ad or catalog page showing the designation "Melba" used.

I am not aware of Miss. Melba receiving any compensation for her imaged to be used. Was she..??.

Perhaps the image is assumed to be Melba by modern day collectors based on the period designation...??.

The German branch registered the design for the "Nr. 15b" on March 5, 1904. This work must have needed some time of preparation, and although Nellie Melba made some private recordings at exactly this time at her home, I don't believe that Melba stood model. Until late December 1904, the name "Melba" was only applied to her records, although she had already consented using her name in many directions. I think the idea for a fundamental change came during a court case between the Gramophone Co. and Howell Bros., who had offered a soundbox with Melba's name in November 1904. In mid-December the court decided in favor of the Gramophone Co., thereby confirming that this company held the trade mark "Melba".

Here is a link to the French catalogue of 1906: https://www.flickr.com/photos/phonogalerie/431667575/

In the issue of February 1905, The Talking Machine News reported that "in the last week of December [1904], the Gramophone Company sold Melba gramophones." Here is an ad from the same paper, but from the issue of April 1905: