It was running so well....

[De Soto Frank]

And then I worked on it.


Edison Home D... I wrote about it the other day under the thread "Performance Test".


I am planning to give this machine to a friend, to be his first cylinder player, and cut-down on my inventory.

Before letting it go, I want to make sure it functions properly.


I had it running strong and smooth, playing a about 4.75 sides, on 2-minutes, and 3.25 sides on 4-minutes, pulling a 30" H&S "Silk-Lined" brass & black horn on a front-mount crane. C and H reproducers, as appropriate.


Well, the nickled bar that goes over the half=nut spring was pretty grungy, so I took that apart to clean it, as well as removing all the caked-on oil and gunk from the half-nut and spring ( just solvent and Q-tips.

I removed the back-rod and carriage, de-gunked, hand-polished the back-rod. swabbed-out the "eyes" in the carriage, put it all back together, and the darned thign bogged-down and stopped ½-way through the first 2-minute cylinder !


I fiddled, twiddled, and resolved to make it behave, and while I got it better, it is still fussy and unreliable.

It will play through a 4-minute Bluye Amberol solidly three times, then when I try a 2-minute, it might bog or skip during the firts one or two plays.

I'm definitely not getting the same performance it would exhibit before my ministrations.


I hauled-out Eric Reiss's book, and went through his method on adjusting the half-nut, but the results are still uneven.


Are Homes really this fussy, or am I just jinxed on this one ?


Does anyone do Tech Master Classes at Wayne or Union ?


Feeling pretty discouraged at the moment... machine is looking good, but playing fairly wretchedly.

[Chuck]

Just be patient and slow and careful.
The extra friction has to be coming from somewhere.
Since it was the feedscrew and halfnut which got disassembled and reassembled, something is obviously different.

I know from adjusting the pressure that the halfnut has
on the feedscrew of my Edison Standard model D combination
2 and 4 minute machine, that this adjustment is a very
touchy one to get it perfect.

Too loose and it has too much play and may even skip.
Too tight and it binds up and it adds friction and
bogs the whole machine down.

Part of that adjustment is how, exactly, the halfnut
fits over the feedscrew. It should rest on the
feedscrew fully, making contact over the whole inside
of the curve, not just one side or the other.

It should press up against the feedscrew with a very gentle, but firm pressure. As the carriage is being set down, the halfnut should start touching the feedscrew
just before the carriage comes to rest on the guide
edge. About a sixteenth of an inch or a tiny bit less
should be the distance between carriage arm and guide
when the halfnut first contacts the feedscrew.

This loads the halfnut up with a slight pressure
against the feedscrew.

Some machines have the halfnut mounted on a nice
springy piece of thin steel which takes care of this
light loading very well. My standard machine does not
have a very springy mount for the feedscrew, so the
adjustment is just that much more touchy to get it
right.

Lubrication is key to it all working correctly too.
I keep an oil can nearby that has 20W50 automotive
engine oil in it. A few drops of that on the feedscrew
once in a while, along with some on the round guide
shaft for the carriage, along with a drop or two on
the carriage rest edge and worked across with a finger
keep all of those surfaces visibly wet with oil at
all times.

Your machine was turning in quite an impressive amount
of playings on one winding. It will again produce
these results after you carefully get it adjusted
correctly again. It's not always real easy.

But patience always pays off.

Be sure to check the carriage guide rod maybe it's
slightly bowed. Try loosening it and turning it 180
degrees, then do the tests again. I've had
Dictaphone shavers with the carriage guide rod bent
about .0005 inches along the length and turning it
over 180 degrees worked wonders.

Chuck

[HisMastersVoice]

Are Homes really this fussy, or am I just jinxed on this one ?

They can be, yes....

I once almost hauled a home out to the curb due to frustration. I wish you luck!

[Chuck]

I've noticed that Homes have a rather small diameter
carriage guide rod.

If it binds now, and it didn't bind before, check that
rod and maybe try rotating it and then try again.
Rotate 180 degrees. Try that. If that does not
help then try 90 degrees either way from there.

My idea is that possibly there's a sweet spot where
everything lines up and works well and this got
changed when the rod was taken out and put back in.

Same for all of the feedscrew/halfnut things.
There's obviously a sweet spot for all of that which just needs to be found again.

After all, it's nothing that a few hundred hours
worth of testing cannot fix!

Chuck

[Valecnik]

I once had the most perfect looking, perfect running home you could imagine, a D model with cygnet. Perfect running for years until I set up at Union and offered it for sale. A potential buyer came along and do you think I could get it to run??? NO WAY!!!

Fortunately, the buyer was a newbie looking for his first one, accompanied by a serious collector friend. The collector after looking it over assured the buyer that the problems were minimal, condition was excellent and price was right so the sale was made anyway.

[Victrolacollector]

Yes they are very quirky. I have a Edison Home B with 2/4 attachment. It takes time and patience. Follow the advice of the previous members. You seemed to get a lot of plays before the adjustments.

My Home is adjusted properly now and gives about 3 plays of 2 minute records and about 2 plays of 4 minute records.


There are other quirky machines out there too....Edison Diamond Disc, and a lot of those machines with Heinemann motors, their governor bearings are crazy.

[Valecnik]

Yes they are very quirky. I have a Edison Home B with 2/4 attachment. It takes time and patience. Follow the advice of the previous members. You seemed to get a lot of plays before the adjustments.

My Home is adjusted properly now and gives about 3 plays of 2 minute records and about 2 plays of 4 minute records.


There are other quirky machines out there too....Edison Diamond Disc, and a lot of those machines with Heinemann motors, their governor bearings are crazy.

I've not had a Diamond Disc machine that ran anything less than perfectly, pretty much same experience with Triumphs but I know others have struggled with them.

[De Soto Frank]

I also have a Home B with 2/4 that has a "bog" in it, about half-way across a cylinder, more noticeable on 2 minute than 4 minute.


Thanks for the replies and encouragement... I'm feeling really under the weather today ( fever, chills, aches )... hopefully I'll feel well enough / patient enough to work on it again soon !


I wish Edison Phonograph Works had used an adjusting screw with a finer pitch on the half-nut spring... the tiniest fraction of a turn on the screw makes SUCH a difference int eh half-nut pressure....


I do appreciate the support...

[FellowCollector]

Assuming that you didn't remove and clean anything but the carriage and carriage rod since it last functioned perfectly then it surely must be your half nut and half nut bar that are not adjusted quite right yet. If you messed around with the feedscrew and/or any parts comprising the mandrel drive shaft then that's a totally different set of possible issues that may be the culprit. I would suggest that you first crank up the machine and then prop up the motor / top works assembly and watch the governor spinning under no load. It should not waiver in speed whatsoever while running under no load (that is, the carriage is in the raised position). Assuming your drive pulley and mandrel pulley are perfectly aligned with each other and the belt is tensioned appropriately then the motor itself can be ruled out. Place the works back into normal playing position and crank it up again. Start the motor and lower the carriage into play position with no cylinder mounted and carefully watch (and listen to!) the half nut as it makes its way across the feedscrew. There should absolutely no slowing down or stuttering of the carriage as it navigates across the feedscrew grooves. If you notice anything other than nice smooth movement made by the carriage then you have a problem somewhere between the upper pulley and the carriage. I would start, as has been suggested, with making tiny baby step adjustments to the carriage halfnut bar. On Edison Homes the half nut adjustment must be perfect otherwise the carriage will either bog down (too much pressure) or hang up (too little pressure) on the feedscrew. Also make certain that the half nut itself is contacting the feedscrew perfectly. It should mesh perfectly with the grooves on the feedscrew. Good luck.

Doug

[phonojim]

I think the backrod is suspect. I have a Triumph D2 with an oak cygnet horn and horizontal carriage. I use it with both O and Diamond B reproducers. 4 minute cylinders would always play fine right down to the end of the wind, but it would NOT play a 2 minute cylinder without losing speed around the middle of the cylinder, recovering slightly toward the end. I also had to have it almost fully wound up in order to get that much out of it. I foughtwith that thing for over 40 years. I eventually tore everything down for a full cleaning, lube and adjustment. Finally I bought a Triumph D, oiled it enough to get it running, dropped the complete works into the D2 case and it played 2 min cylinders without a hitch. Now I knew for sure what I could expect. So, I adjusted, hunted through the thing, took it apart, put it back together ad nauseum. My wife said sell it but I don't give up that easily. So, all of a sudden it dawned on me...THE BACKROD! I swapped the rod and sleeve from the D to the D2, tweaked things a little and Voila! - it worked and continues to do so. The D2 backrod and sleeve from the D2 works fine on the D because the D has a small eye angled carriage and does not carry the weight of the horn like the D2 setup does. I still had to find the sweet spot for the backrod on the D, though. Before rotating the rod, use a sharpie to mark your starting point. This may sound like a dumb question but I'll ask anyway: Is the rod installed correctly? ie: are the speed marks on the right end?
On the subject of half nuts: I set the half nut down on the feedscrew, make sure that it fits over the screw fully and is not twisted out of the perpendicular (to the feedscrew. I then keep a little pressure on it with one hand while tightening the screws with the other.
I put very little pressure on the half nut re: the feedscrew; just enough so that it tracks properly without skipping. I make the final adjustment with the machine playing a cylinder on machines where it can be done that way.
After all the hair-pulling etc., etc., the Triumph D2 will play 12+ 2 min. cylinders on a full wind.
Sorry about the long post but I hope it will help you solve your problem.

Jim