2 General Questions

[startgroove]

In 1958, there was a display of phonographs in the San Fernando Valley Federal Bank, at the corner of Sherman Way and Vassar Ave. I was a child, but my interest peaked as I examined a Columbia Q and an Edison Standard. The owner of the collection was on hand to explain the hobby and the history. I asked what it would cost to own one. He pointed to the Standard and said it was $15. That was way beyond my means as my allowance was a mere $1 a week, and it mostly went to buy candy and a movie Saturday afternoon.
Anyway, about 20 years later, I began to seriously acquire radios and phonographs, and then jukeboxes. At that time, a nice Standard was about $100.
To me, it seems the values constantly work upward in the long term, (punctuated by temporary dips downwards, or upwards, caused by changes in demand and economics). Certainly a significant driving force is inflation.
My wife and I are still actively acquiring phonographs, though we devote most of our phonograph resources to the harder to find items.
I am 68 going on 29. When I turn 21, I will stop drinking. Russie and Loi Ofria

[FloridaClay]

Unfortunately the collector community is diminishing for all sorts of mechanical music machines. Membership in the allied organizations has been trending down for perhaps 25 years now.

I am much encouraged, though, by some of the younger collectors who are now showing up here and by the great work of some of the Forum members in getting out and demonstrating machines at various events. Lots of us are from a generation when there were phonographs in our parents or grandparents homes, but that day has largely passed. After all, people can't get excited about something they have never seen. Those "show and tell" efforts are what is going to keep the hobby alive.

Clay

[orpington]

I remember antique shows in shopping malls a couple of times a year, antique shops in every little town, and those shops being frequented by young people pushing strollers. What a difference a quarter-century makes... However, these things are cyclical, and I'd expect a resurgence of general interest in old things once a new generation emerges which is not engrossed in cell phones and gaming.

I like the answers so far, but I highlighted this quote, as I see this with my wife, who is 10 ½ years younger than me. She likes Ikea, new stuff, and other such junk. She doesn't appreciate auctions, flea markets, old phonographs, old cars, antique firearms, and nice old homes with lots of land, like I do. I don't see how those her age and younger can 'turn around' and appreciate all the junk I like and collect. I go to antique firearms shows and some old car meets and I am one of the few with only greying hair, and not completely grey and/or bald.

[EarlH]

There's a lot of downward pressure as far as price goes on antiques in general. Most of this stuff has had a better survival rate than collectors used to think. The internet in the last 15 years has sure dragged a lot of stuff out into the light of day. I and a good friend of mine (at my advice) sold off all of our "common" machines 10-12 years ago when I figured out what ebay was doing to this stuff. I think there is more interest in the music, but how many people actually play it on the machines it was meant to be played on? Or they just want a digital copy of it. And if you think the market is soft on phonographs, holy crap has it collapsed for player pianos of any kind. Those require maintenance, and oiling and all sorts of mysterious stuff that young people are just not interested in learning about.

I had a kid over here a year ago and he listened to a song on my Western Electric coin piano in the house here. It's a cabinet piano, so it has no keyboard and it's about half the width of a regular piano. He couldn't believe that it could be a piano and not have a keyboard and wanted to know why they would make such a thing. And I told him it was mostly about size and that a piano like this took up less space. He pulled his MP3 player out of his pocket and said "Earl, this is small NOT THAT!" So how does this stuff compete? Most of them now don't even know the difference between wood and particle board. So, if you are in the market to buy this stuff, I think it will improve for you. If you thought of it as an investment.... could be bad.

I don't honestly see much of this stuff going up much in price. At least not enough to keep up with inflation. There will always be rarities and exceptions, but how many Victrola XI's does any collector really want? And books too have pushed the price down on the common machines. 35 years ago knowledge was hard one, the young collector today has a better idea of what really is rare now in one afternoon, than you could have figured out in 10 years back in the 60's and 70's. Who knew that I should have bought that Victor VI I saw in a pawnshop back in the mid 70's for $55? Or the Amberola 1A full of cylinders for $125 in 1978? Or the 10 stacks of new old stock diamond disk records that were 6 ft. high ea. for $125 up in Mankato about the same time? We can laugh about it now, but I was young then and all the phonographs were priced in those ranges then, and it was hard to tell what you should really buy. And they guys that did know, weren't talking.... Later on they wrote the books. HA!

[Victrolaboy]

Unfortunately the collector community is diminishing for all sorts of mechanical music machines. Membership in the allied organizations has been trending down for perhaps 25 years now.

I am much encouraged, though, by some of the younger collectors who are now showing up here and by the great work of some of the Forum members in getting out and demonstrating machines at various events. Lots of us are from a generation when there were phonographs in our parents or grandparents homes, but that day has largely passed. After all, people can't get excited about something they have never seen. Those "show and tell" efforts are what is going to keep the hobby alive.

Clay

Speaking of those "show and tell" efforts of phonographs, when I was in 4th grade (I'm now half way through 8th) I built a tinfoil phonograph myself and demonstrated it to my class and it actually worked. Actually it made EXCELLENT recordings that were nice and crisp and clear. I'll never forget the look on my classmates faces when I turned the crank and the phonograph repeated those works I spoke into it. The teacher screamed when I played back the recording because it worked so well and she obviously thought I was crazy and that it wouldn't work.
-Nick Hoffmann (the 13 year old collector )

[marcapra]

-Nick Hoffmann (the 13 year old collector )

Nick, it's great to have a 13 year old collector in this hobby! I'm 64 and have only been in it for about 12 years! I didn't think it was even possible for there to be a 13 year old collector! I sure wish I could be 13 again, knowing what I know now!

[epigramophone]

In the UK, portable gramophones appear to be the only growth area of the market. HMV102's are very common but always sell well, especially the coloured versions. Cabinet gramophones, unless of the HMV Re-Entrant variety, usually sell at bargain prices because of space considerations. The average UK home tends to be smaller than in the USA.

I will be 68 this year and acquired my first machine at the age of 10. My collecting slowed down whilst I was earning a living and raising a family, but took off again in retirement. When my wife and I retired and moved house it was not to downsize, but to buy something bigger!

Growing old is inevitable, but growing up is optional.

Roger.

[Victrolacollector]

Yes, I think most phonograph prices have fallen since 2008, with the economic downturn. But as others have mentioned, the access to more machines through online and auctions and of course the aging community have impacted this.

My how time flies, I am 41 and been collecting since 1987..I was 13 then.

[tinovanderzwan]

yes the prices have droped since 2008 but top phono´s seem to have kept their price and even gone up
machines like class m´s, bettini´s lioret, and coin-ops like hexaphones and autophones have only gone up
a rarity will always stay a rarity even when the economy takes a dip
its only the more common machines that have become more affordable so this is the time to buy

i'm 40 years old and i started in 1889 when i was 15

here in holland i see quite a number of young faces at the annual meeting of phonograph collectors the youngest this year was only 9 so the hobby has plenty of new blood here


tino

[flashpanblue]

Hi Tino,
If you were 15 years old in 1889 doesn't that make you 126 years old now!!