Advice to refinish Edison mahogany machines.

[Dustie89]

Hi I am in the process of refinishing a mahogany H-19.I'm seeing if anyone could offer some helpful hints to get "the right" look. Recommendations of brands, stains, laquer/shellac, etc.

Any info would be helpful and appreciated.

[Mr Grumpy]

Hey Dustie,

My philosophy is to try and use the exact methods and or products that would have been used originally.
Trying to substitute a modern alternative in my experience will never achieve the desired results.

Based on the word 'refinish' I'm assuming the machine has been, or will be stripped to bare wood.
If this is the case, I'd at the very least avoid sanding the wood unless completely necessary.
From this point you need to select a stain and it's been my experience that no matter which
brand you use, you will seldom find an out-of-the-can perfect match. For a Mahogany machine,
I would start with a small amount of red mahogany stain and mix it with something that will make it less
red (brown or dark walnut or something like that). Forget about trying to use a dark stain
to match the look of the darkened aged finish. You need to darken the clear coat to achieve that.
I would buy a small 2' x 2' piece of ¼ inch oak veneer plywood and draw out an even grid on it. In
each box of the grid, I'd apply a different ratio of my mixed stains to compare to one another.
You'll have to finish the piece of plywood to a complete finish before you get an accurate idea of
what the end result will be.

After the stain, I would apply one coat of DE-WAXED Shellac. I spray it on with this http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.a ... 3456,43390
or a small artists airbrush. You can use a darker type of Shellac for the first coat to
get the darkened look or mix a blonde shellac with a toner. For toners, you can use these
alcohol based stains that mix well with shellac --> http://www.goudeymfg.com/solvent-water- ... tains.html
or these pigments --> http://www.woodessence.com/ColorFX-Dye- ... 48C12.aspx
I use both of these products and either way, you need to mix them to achieve the desired tone.

It's best if you mix your own shellac, it's not hard and there's a ratio chart here --> http://www.shellac.net/PoundCutChart.html
I buy my flakes here in Canada --> http://www.woodessence.com/Dry-Shellac-P54C13.aspx
(note they stress de-waxed).
After the first coat the stain and wood are sealed and I can apply a grain filler.
I buy it locally here --> http://www.goudeymfg.com/solvent-water- ... iller.html
This grain filler doesn't require sanding, that's why I apply it at this stage.
If it required sanding like this one --> http://www.woodessence.com/HSF5100-Grai ... 62C18.aspx I'd apply it before the stain.
I have both of these products, and they both need to be tinted with this (black) --> http://www.woodessence.com/Mixol-Pigmen ... 50C11.aspx
It will still look cloudy and grayish, but you try to get it as dark as possible. The next coat of shellac will make it black.

After the grain filler, I apply at least one more coat of shellac with the toner.
These coats are what is going to tone down the 'new' looking grain and the
toner is what gets the finish to match places like under the lid, or inside the
record storage (you'll never achieve that with stain). Very little is required as you want
the shellac to remain translucent and not obscure too much of the grain.
Every re-finished machine that I've seen has a clearer and more pronounced grain than a 100 year
old finish. The dark shellac or toned shellac is what will minimize the 'new' look.

Then I spay one good coat of blonde or super blonde shellac.
This coat of plain blonde shellac will protect the toner layer from the many hours
of french polishing that I do next. The polishing will level the shellac and any over-spray
from the spray gun and fill any grain that is still showing until you have a piano finish.

After the polishing is complete, I lightly (wet) sand the finish and polish to rub
out the high gloss look of the shellac. When you use a high gloss finish, you can always
rub it down to a semi or a flat, but you can never make a flat finish semi or high gloss,
no matter how much polishing you do.

Everyone probably does it differently, but I've had good results using this method.
Ideally though, I would avoid stripping it to bare wood and try to repair the damage
with toners, pigments,and re-amalgamation.

If you follow all of that on your plywood grid, it will give you a great idea of
what the finished product will look like and which ratios you should use.

Good luck!

[Dustie89]

Thank u. It helps me out a lot. I've heard of aneline dye and orange shellac are the things to use, but I'm having trouble finding it. That'd why I was looking for an alternative.

[Mr Grumpy]

The two places I linked to don't stock Orange flakes anymore, you'd have to go
with Garnet which isn't that far off.

[dutchman]

Can you post a few photos of the machine you are working on? Cheers


Bill K

[Discman]

I buy my flake shellac here, the prices are good and they ship fast:
http://www.shellacshack.com/purchase-sh ... lakes.html

Dave Jolley

[martinola]

I suspect the lack of results in your search for aniline dyes is from the typo in your original post. They are out there. I've had success in using Mohawk's products, however they are pricey. Here is a link for some I've been thinking of trying:

https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/sto ... /LW-BAW.XX

Good luck on the project. Keep us updated with pictures if you can.

Regards,
Martin

[Bruce]

Great post Vince (Mr Grumpy)nicely laid out for anyone to follow. I wish I had come across this advice before I took on some of my project and had to do a lot of reading and experimenting.

Dustie keep posting updates, with photos, we are interested and there are lots of supporters out here who are behind you.

Bruce

[EarlH]

Wood dyes are nice, but many of the alcohol based one's fade really badly, and it's pretty hard to use the water based one's when refinishing. You should post a few pictures of your Edison so there is an idea of the color you are trying to get back to. I've usually had better luck with the NGR stains, but others may have had good luck with something else.