ORIGINAL EDISON HORN

[Turruz]

Hi everybody.. i have a edison stand. model B... and i need a horn... the question is.. how can i understand if a horn is original or a replica?.. i mean classic 14" witch edison horn.. thank u

[ambrola]

Watch eBay, when you see one you think is right, post it in the eBay section and ask. Someone with more knowledge than I will help you. At least that is what I did.
Good Luck. Here's my 1897 horn after John got done with it.

[phonogfp]

Here's what I offered to a similar discussion in August 2012 and January 29 of this year:

Most original cylinder horns manufactured before 1905 will have the smaller end constructed with a straight tube soldered into the body. I believe the Tea Tray Company was the first to patent a stamped & joined small end for a horn (that's the April 22, 1905 patent we often see on horns). Others soon developed similar designs. Edison never manufactured cylinder horns (except for the Amberolas). Edison-supplied external horns were made by outside manufacturers such as Tea Tray and Standard Metal Manufacturing Company.

The fact is that not all original horns have any markings, patent stamps, or otherwise (in fact most don't). Not all original cylinder horns will have the seam running the entire length of the smaller end (in fact, very few will before 1905, with exceptions such as the small aluminum horns supplied for the Graphophones).

So how do you tell?

1) On the earlier designs where the small end consists of a tube soldered to the tapering section, check for the tube to be brass. Reproductions will often use copper.

2) Check the imaginary line from the tapered section to the bell. They should line up. Reproductions will often have a bell section that's a bit larger than the tapered section or vice versa. Look for that continuity.

3) Look down the throat of the horn from the wide end. Sometimes (but not always) reproductions will have subtle concentric lines in the bell from the spinning process. I've never seen these on originals (but good reproductions won't have them either).

4) If the horn is a larger one (more than 15" long), chances are it's an original. Some larger reproductions have been made, but I've seen comparatively few of them. If there's a question, check the hanger. If you've examined hundreds of antique phonograph horns, you'll be able to spot a reproduction hanger. Also, check #1 above. Check the construction of joints, soldering, etc. There's no substitute for experience.

You might want to read this earlier thread as well:

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... ell#p88940

George P.

[ambrola]

Thanks for that info George.

[Lucius1958]

Here's a quick visual comparison: an original horn, ca. 1905/6 (left) vs. a repro horn (right):

Photo on 2-16-15 at 1.43 AM.jpg (219.32 KiB) Viewed 1728 times

Bill

[Turruz]

Thank u sooooooooooooo much

[tubaphone]

Here's a quick visual comparison: an original horn, ca. 1905/6 (left) vs. a repro horn (right):

Photo on 2-16-15 at 1.43 AM.jpg

Bill

The other thing about the repro horns besides the end that fits on the reproducer is the construction and look of the brass bell section compared to the original as the posted pictures illustrate. The repro has a shorter brass bell with a slightly different shape and is seamed to the cone section differently from the original. The brass bells on the repro's never looked right to me. Has anyone made a 14 inch brass bell repro horn that is very close to an original?

[phonogfp]

The other thing about the repro horns besides the end that fits on the reproducer is the construction and look of the brass bell section compared to the original as the posted pictures illustrate. The repro has a shorter brass bell with a slightly different shape and is seamed to the cone section differently from the original. The brass bells on the repro's never looked right to me. Has anyone made a 14 inch brass bell repro horn that is very close to an original?

The Smiths, while still in business, manufactured and sold an excellent 14" reproduction horn, but I don't have one to show.

George P.

[fmblizz]

here are two pic's of a horn that I've always questioned... It definitely has age but there is no Pat. Pending mark.. Also it is not rolled where the bell meets but I still feel that it has go to be an original from the period..

the last pic shows a horn with the Pat mark on the far left.
Horn in the center is the one in question..

Horn on the right is a repo that came with a machine.

Any opinions out there about the maker of the center horn..

[FellowCollector]

the question is.. how can i understand if a horn is original or a replica?.. i mean classic 14" witch edison horn..

The method that I have used for nearly 30 years to indicate immediately whether a 14" witches hat cylinder phonograph horn is original or reproduction is incredibly simple and quick. I insert my fingers into the bell (large) end of the horn and feel for a raised ridge at the seam where the bell was attached to the cone section. If there is no ridge (ie. the seam is almost perfectly smooth) then there is a 99% chance that the horn is original whether it has a patent stamp or not. If there is a slightly raised ridge at the seam where the bell end meets the cone it is likely a reproduction horn. Now, I'm not stating that this method is 100% accurate but it has never failed me in well over a hundred 14" original and reproduction horns I've encountered over the years. As always, your results may vary.

Doug