Victor External Horn Machine for Export

[Zeppy]

I've been trying to find anything on a particular rare external horn machine. I recall seeing it either on ebay, or some discussion on one of our long departed boards.

The machine in question was a Victor external horn machine. I vaguely recall its designation was V-XX. From my recollection, everything about it was legit. It wasn't an HMV machine, but was Victor, and had all the branding of the US domestic Victors, and the Victor dataplate we all are familiar with. The odd thing about it, was the model number. From the discussion I remember, it was a machine intended for foreign markets.

Now am I have a flashback from some drug addled stupor of decades past, or am I remembering this correctly? This ring any bells with anyone? I can't find anything about it in any book or on-line.

[Jerry B.]

I went through the sixties as well so... If you look at the Victor Data Book, you'll notice many of the horn machines continued and sold in small numbers long after they were considered an obsolete style machine. I believe most of those late horn machine sales were to foreign markets. The Victor V is a good example. I believe Mahogany Victor V's came in two basic styles. One looks like a typical Victor V but in mahogany. The other looks like a giant mahogany Victor IV. I don't own either style, but one is generally said to be an export model. I'm guessing the Vic IV style V is the export model. Someone PLEASE correct me if I'm in error! I saw a Victor III machine in an antique shop recently. The ID tag read "V-III" and much of the mechanical parts were clearly Victrola but appeared correct for a late Victor III as there was not an extra crank hole. The crank, motor, tone arm, brake, and turntable all appeared to be from Victrola parts. When I see a machine like this, I always suspect it was sold new in a foreign market and recently worked its way back to our antique market. Jerry Blais

[gramophone78]

I went through the sixties as well so... If you look at the Victor Data Book, you'll notice many of the horn machines continued and sold in small numbers long after they were considered an obsolete style machine. I believe most of those late horn machine sales were to foreign markets. The Victor V is a good example. I believe Mahogany Victor V's came in two basic styles. One looks like a typical Victor V but in mahogany. The other looks like a giant mahogany Victor IV. I don't own either style, but one is generally said to be an export model. I'm guessing the Vic IV style V is the export model. Someone PLEASE correct me if I'm in error! I saw a Victor III machine in an antique shop recently. The ID tag read "V-III" and much of the mechanical parts were clearly Victrola but appeared correct for a late Victor III as there was not an extra crank hole. The crank, motor, tone arm, brake, and turntable all appeared to be from Victrola parts. When I see a machine like this, I always suspect it was sold new in a foreign market and recently worked its way back to our antique market. Jerry Blais

I used to think this way..... "an export only" regarding my mahogany V-V V. This model utilizes many Victrola parts. However, thanks to George P. for showing us a US market Victor pamphlet (circa 1917), I now know my model at least was offered for sale in the USA and not just for exportation.

[Silvertone]

From what I have seen, most Victor models were exported at one time or another. In the case of the outside horn machines, by WWI most of these were exported. There was little demand for them here.

I don't think that there was any difference between ones sold here and those that were exported. The late Victors had late Victor features, such as 4-spring motors for the Victor V, speed indicators with windows, automatic brakes, and so forth, so it is tempting to think that these features were unique to the export models, but that is not the case.

[gramophone78]

From what I have seen, most Victor models were exported at one time or another. In the case of the outside horn machines, by WWI most of these were exported. There was little demand for them here.

I don't think that there was any difference between ones sold here and those that were exported. The late Victors had late Victor features, such as 4-spring motors for the Victor V, speed indicators with windows, automatic brakes, and so forth, so it is tempting to think that these features were unique to the export models, but that is not the case.

I meant to write "export only" was the conventional way of thinking regarding models such as my late V-V V or any models with later data plates found stamped....V-0, V-111,etc....However, this simply is not accurate. While as you stated, Victor was always exporting. Clearly there was some market still clinging to these now antiquated designs within the US. Maybe the more rural areas still accepted the exterior horn models..??.

So, the late Victor V had a four spring motor...??. Do you happen to have one or a photo to show us..??.

My late V has a triple spring motor (as described) in the 1917 pamphlet. The case size of mine also matches the description.

[Zeppy]

The thing about this particular machine I'm thinking of, is the model number wasn't the traditional 0 through 6, or the earlier, E, M MS, or Z. So this was a Victor machine, that was specifically made not to be sold in the US market.

I'm pretty sure this isn't the result of a hallucination, and wasn't something someone put together in their basement.

[brianu]

From what I have seen, most Victor models were exported at one time or another. In the case of the outside horn machines, by WWI most of these were exported. There was little demand for them here.

I don't think that there was any difference between ones sold here and those that were exported. The late Victors had late Victor features, such as 4-spring motors for the Victor V, speed indicators with windows, automatic brakes, and so forth, so it is tempting to think that these features were unique to the export models, but that is not the case.

I have never seen any legitimate external horn victor machine with a four-spring motor, automatic brake (that wasn't a special add-on gadget) or (aside from the XXV schoolhouse) a speed control with the see through "window" indicator. are you just talking about victor victrolas in general? if not, where are you getting your information?

[gramophone78]

From what I have seen, most Victor models were exported at one time or another. In the case of the outside horn machines, by WWI most of these were exported. There was little demand for them here.

I don't think that there was any difference between ones sold here and those that were exported. The late Victors had late Victor features, such as 4-spring motors for the Victor V, speed indicators with windows, automatic brakes, and so forth, so it is tempting to think that these features were unique to the export models, but that is not the case.

I have never seen any legitimate external horn victor machine with a four-spring motor, automatic brake (that wasn't a special add-on gadget) or (aside from the XXV schoolhouse) a speed control with the see through "window" indicator. are you just talking about victor victrolas in general? if not, where are you getting your information?

I seem to recall a Victor V model "E" having a four spring (two a side) motor. I think Jeff (Mr. Moo) owns it and it's oak. He believed my Vic.V to be a "C" model. Maybe Jeff can confirm this for us..??.

For posterity, here is the triple spring motor used on my later production mahogany V. The motor is also clearly shown on the lubrication chart paper inside the case. Interesting note....you can see the mounting holes in the motor casing for installing the speed indicator mechanism/needle. However, for this application, it was never used.

I'm having brain freeze. This motor was also used in what model Victrola...???.. .

[Victrolaboy]

From what I have seen, most Victor models were exported at one time or another. In the case of the outside horn machines, by WWI most of these were exported. There was little demand for them here.

I don't think that there was any difference between ones sold here and those that were exported. The late Victors had late Victor features, such as 4-spring motors for the Victor V, speed indicators with windows, automatic brakes, and so forth, so it is tempting to think that these features were unique to the export models, but that is not the case.

I have never seen any legitimate external horn victor machine with a four-spring motor, automatic brake (that wasn't a special add-on gadget) or (aside from the XXV schoolhouse) a speed control with the see through "window" indicator. are you just talking about victor victrolas in general? if not, where are you getting your information?

I seem to recall a Victor V model "E" having a four spring (two a side) motor. I think Jeff (Mr. Moo) owns it and it's oak. He believed my Vic.V to be a "C" model. Maybe Jeff can confirm this for us..??.

For posterity, here is the triple spring motor used on my later production mahogany V. The motor is also clearly shown on the lubrication chart paper inside the case. Interesting note....you can see the mounting holes in the motor casing for installing the speed indicator mechanism/needle. However, for this application, it was never used.

I'm having brain freeze. This motor was also used in what model Victrola...???.. .

Victor Mahogany Five (6).JPG

I think it was used in the VV- XIV VTLA

[OrthoSean]

No, certainly not a VTLA motor. It may be the one the XVIII had, but I haven't had mine open in forever to be certain. I think the early non-L-door XVIs used a similar motor as well.

Sean