Starr Phonograph: A name brand or Off Brand

[epigramophone]

In the UK both EMG and Expert used bought in motors, but no-one would dare refer to them as "off brands".

[Phonolair]

However, the "big three" train of thought has been around since the dawn of collecting.

With time things can and will change as new collectors come into the fold. As a long time collector the brand name phonographs has always been Victor, Edison and Columbia. When I was a new collector I heard the term used in phrases like " I collector brand name phonographs", " I sell brand name phonographs", "I repair brand name phonographs", "the auction has a lot of brand name stuff". It was the lingo of the old timers and that's what I learned as a new collector. And here's the shocker that's blurring the line now. The old timers were talking mostly about outside horn machines, internal horn machines for the most part, (except a few high end machines) were not on collectors radar. So nowadays with newer collectors asking why quality machines like Brunswick and Sonora are not considered brand names. It's not that they are less of a machine, it's that phonograph collecting has and is changing. The lines of demarcation are changing, the old terminology doesn't work as well with the new collecting interest. As time goes on and the older collectors move on (I'm not ready yet). The newer collectors with different and expanded interests may come up with new or revised terminology to cover new collecting areas. My two cents.

Best Regards, Larry

[Phototone]

As far as "off-brands" circumventing patents of the BIG 3, by the end of WW-1, most of the important patents had expired. There were hundreds of makers then of machines to play regular 78 rpm discs. To ME, the importance of any brand of machine would be the amount of engineering that went into making it a superior playing machine. Good tone-arm and horn design, quiet motor, well crafted wood-work. Some (many) brands were built cheap to undercut the BIG 3, but others were not. Some were more expensive and exhibited superior cabinetry, and sometimes innovative engineering in the sound reproduction. You really have to take each brand separately, and not be derogatory of brands other than the BIG 3 + Brunswick. Using a 3rd party motor is not a bad thing. In England, Garrard and Collaro supplied motors to many small makes, and of course existed well into the HiFi era making high quality record changers. In the USA, the Magnavox brand sourced its record changers from Collaro.

[gramophone78]

This "off brand" question has been raised more times on this forum an I wish to remember. The bottom line is.....who cares??. We as collectors should and do love them all.

However, to get this thread back on track and regarding the initial question asked....as Jerry has already stated.....Starr is indeed considered (by many) to be an "off brand"... .