Victrola VV-XII Help Please

[FellowCollector]

I've owned a Victor Victrola VV-XII for over 20 years and have never been able to play it due to a problem that is difficult to explain. I've attached several pictures to enable a better description of the problem.

Since this is my only VV-XII, I have no other example in my collection for reference. So I would be sincerely appreciative of anyone who may help me figure this out.

Please know that I would have posted this in the Wanted section of the Forum but I don't know yet what I want!

When I purchased this Victrola the previous owner indicated that it did not work. He told me that he messed around with it a little to try to get it working but gave up. I presumed that I could fix it myself with no problem.

What he neglected to tell me was that someone had applied so much pressure to the crank that they broke off the end.

My problem is that I don't know whether the end of the crank has been broken off or the end of the mainspring shaft has been broken off...or both. The end of the crank appears to have no threads remaining inside (presuming it was/is a female crank). If the crank end has been broken off it was a very clean break!

You can see in one picture that the previous owner tried to make a slot in the end of what remains of either the mainspring shaft...or the end of the crank presumably to try removing it with a heavy blade screwdriver.

My thought is that I need to remove the mainspring barrels...shaft and all...from the motor casting. But unlike many other later Victor motors I've worked on that have screws securing a removable end of the spring barrel assembly, on this one I cannot understand how the spring barrel assembly is removed from the casting. The end of the mainspring assembly that should be removable is seated in place by one screw (that I have removed from the underside) and two fixed posts! What the heck?

If anyone has had one of these VV-XII mainspring assemblies apart or better still has an idea what can be done to fix this problem I would be very pleased to hear your responses and advice. I am pretty confused at this point as to what is broken and what can be done.

By the way, everything else on this motor is smooth running and I have removed the governor for cleaning before taking the pictures. And the cabinet is nice on this one so I would love to hear it playing again.

This one is the later model VV_XII with the nice 'carving' under the lid (not unlike that found on the dome lid VTLA model).

Many thanks, in advance!

Doug

[Mr Grumpy]

On my XII, the shaft coming from the main spring is longer and threaded (male).
The original crank is female.

Hope this is the info you were looking for?

[rizbone]

There are two screws that can be reached by removing the motor from the motorboard. This will allow you to remove one of the pillars holding the spring barrels.On the plus side you may just have a stripped winding key. The shaft is male but on mine it is recessed into the spring barrel shaft, so if your motor is of that design you may be lucky. I took a couple of photos for comparison. Yours may have a piece of the old crank still screwed on and broken off.

[FellowCollector]

On my XII, the shaft coming from the main spring is longer and threaded (male).
The original crank is female.

Hope this is the info you were looking for?

Thanks Vince. That's part of what I was looking for. I had suspected that the mainspring shaft was broken off.

Doug

[FellowCollector]

There are two screws that can be reached by removing the motor from the motorboard. This will allow you to remove one of the pillars holding the spring barrels.

Thanks for your input. However, this motor casting has only one screw and two studs (or pins) that secure the casting pillar for the ratchet gear/winding gear and I don't see any way to remove that part of the casting due to the two studs (or pins). I tried to capture a picture of this but it is not easy to see the two pins I'm referring to. You can only see the two holes at the base of the casting.

Doug

[gramophone78]

There are two screws that can be reached by removing the motor from the motorboard. This will allow you to remove one of the pillars holding the spring barrels.

Thanks for your input. However, this motor casting has only one screw and two studs (or pins) that secure the casting pillar for the ratchet gear/winding gear and I don't see any way to remove that part of the casting due to the two studs (or pins). I tried to capture a picture of this but it is not easy to see the two pins I'm referring to. You can only see the two holes at the base of the casting.

Doug

Doug,
I seem to recall "Zeppy" having a spare motor and you may want to contact him.

[FellowCollector]

There are two screws that can be reached by removing the motor from the motorboard. This will allow you to remove one of the pillars holding the spring barrels.

Thanks for your input. However, this motor casting has only one screw and two studs (or pins) that secure the casting pillar for the ratchet gear/winding gear and I don't see any way to remove that part of the casting due to the two studs (or pins). I tried to capture a picture of this but it is not easy to see the two pins I'm referring to. You can only see the two holes at the base of the casting.

Doug

Doug,
I seem to recall "Zeppy" having a spare motor and you may want to contact him.

Thanks Wayne. Will do. May be my best option at this point.

Doug

[Mr Grumpy]

Thanks for your input. However, this motor casting has only one screw and two studs (or pins) that secure the casting pillar for the ratchet gear/winding gear and I don't see any way to remove that part of the casting due to the two studs (or pins). I tried to capture a picture of this but it is not easy to see the two pins I'm referring to. You can only see the two holes at the base of the casting.

Doug

I just took a look and my motor is set up the exact same way, a single screw in the center with two pins on either side of it.
I removed the screw, held the assembly by the spring barrel in my left hand, then I tapped
gently on the cast support with a small hammer until it separated from the cast plate enough to get a slotted screw
driver in there and pry the pieces apart.

It actually came apart quite easily.

[rizbone]

Yep, single screw and pins on mine as well. I guess old age strikes again.

[FellowCollector]

I just took a look and my motor is set up the exact same way, a single screw in the center with two pins on either side of it.
I removed the screw, held the assembly by the spring barrel in my left hand, then I tapped
gently on the cast support with a small hammer until it separated from the cast plate enough to get a slotted screw
driver in there and pry the pieces apart.

It actually came apart quite easily.

Thanks Vince!!

I tapped on the casting while holding the spring barrels and voila!

But...NOW my problem is that I still cannot remove the spring barrel assembly because the large (and fragile!) brass winding gear is recessed into the casting.

Everything I have tried to remove the spring barrel assembly has been unsuccessful. When carefully I lift up on the assembly the brass winding gear teeth are trying to catch on the casting and I don't want to harm those brass teeth!

One step forward...but still the mainspring assembly is stuck. Help!

Below are a couple of pictures.

If I can just get the spring barrel assembly out then I am hoping to get another shaft made or find one with help of our members here. But I need to get the spring barrel assembly out without damaging the brass winding gear.

The spring barrel assembly can move back and forth just a little inside the bearing on the one stationary casting pillar where the end of the broken shaft is - but that pillar allows very little movement up and down of the spring barrel assembly.

The part of the casting (see below) that has the 2 alignment pins is raised and so it is in the way of the brass winding gear when I try to slide the assembly out!

Thanks so much, in advance, for your help!

Doug