Rare Victor Monarch Record?

[Andreas Gramophones]

I keep ha this disc a few years, I think it is the year of the Victor Talking Machine foundation, the finish is rough, what do you think?
It is a rare disk or is easily collectors on wheels?

[FloridaClay]

It looks like that catalog # and title was, curiously, issued both as a 7" single-side record and as a 10" single-side record and was recorded on 2/18/02.

http://adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/objects/index

It looks like an example of the first label that had Nipper on it, but not the earliest Victor label. I don't know how rare they might be.

Clay

[Talkophone]

This is what they call First Dog Victor. I have had more Pre-Dog Victor than First Dog Victor. So to me they are a little harder to find.

Larry

[ejackett]

Hi Andreas, I also have an early Victor Monarch record that I found
at a thrift shop this past year. Unlike yours though mine has the
letter "B" on the right side of the Dog, indicating that it was made
for the Victor Talking Machine Co. by The Columbia record co., I forgot
where I found out that info. I'm posting a picture of mine. I've
played mine several times and for 100+ year old record it still sounds
pretty good.
Gene

[Wolfe]

Good ol' Harry Macdonough.

[Andreas Gramophones]

Thank you friends for the answers, now I know that is rare and is Feb / 1902. Remains in the collection with other rarities.
Greetings to all.

[phonogfp]

Hi Andreas, I also have an early Victor Monarch record that I found
at a thrift shop this past year. Unlike yours though mine has the
letter "B" on the right side of the Dog, indicating that it was made
for the Victor Talking Machine Co. by The Columbia record co., I forgot
where I found out that info. I'm posting a picture of mine. I've
played mine several times and for 100+ year old record it still sounds
pretty good.
Gene

The letter "B" to the right and below the trademark denotes a pressing from the Burt Company for Victor. Columbia had nothing to do with these pressings, as this was a contract between the Burt Company and Victor.

Columbia's first discs were pressed by the Burt Company, but in January 1902, Victor bought Burt and Columbia was left without a supplier. Columbia eventually bought back the Burt Company from Victor for the same amount Victor had paid, but only with the legal agreement that Columbia would drop impending litigation against Victor.

Burt continued to press quantities of records for Victor until the fall of 1902. After that time, all of Victor's pressing was done in its own facilities.

George P.

[gramophone78]

Hi Andreas, I also have an early Victor Monarch record that I found
at a thrift shop this past year. Unlike yours though mine has the
letter "B" on the right side of the Dog, indicating that it was made
for the Victor Talking Machine Co. by The Columbia record co., I forgot
where I found out that info. I'm posting a picture of mine. I've
played mine several times and for 100+ year old record it still sounds
pretty good.
Gene

The letter "B" to the right and below the trademark denotes a pressing from the Burt Company for Victor. Columbia had nothing to do with these pressings, as this was a contract between the Burt Company and Victor.

Columbia's first discs were pressed by the Burt Company, but in January 1902, Victor bought Burt and Columbia was left without a supplier. Columbia eventually bought back the Burt Company from Victor for the same amount Victor had paid, but only with the legal agreement that Columbia would drop impending litigation against Victor.

Burt continued to press quantities of records for Victor until the fall of 1902. After that time, all of Victor's pressing was done in its own facilities.

George P.

Now I would have paid good money to have been a Fly on the wall during that meeting with Johnson offering the company "they" had used back to the Columbia Exec's.... .

Correct me if I'm wrong.....I don't think Johnson gave all the master's back....did he..???. Did he not also "steal" Burt's top engineers like English..??.

[phonogfp]

Now I would have paid good money to have been a Fly on the wall during that meeting with Johnson offering "their" company back to the Columbia Exec's.... .

Before Victor's purchase of the Burt Company, it wasn't Columbia's, but an independent supplier. It was a pretty slick maneuver, and probably saved Victor. I have written at length about all the details in The Talking Machine Compendium, Discovering Antique Phonographs, and in The Sound Box (now The Antique Phonograph). It's a long story.

Correct me if I'm wrong.....I don't think Johnson gave all the master's back....did he..???. Did he not also "steal" Burt's top engineers like English..??.

The masters belonged to Johnson, so there was no giving them back to anyone. You're probably thinking of the episode described by Fenimore Johnson in his book where Eldridge - - fearing the outcome of the Burt episode - - loaded his newly-bought matrices formerly belonging to the Burt Company) in a wagon and was prepared to hide them "in the wilds of New Jersey." Eventually these matrices were marked "VTM", so when Columbia received them back, they had their competitor's initials engraved in them, and some were issued that way by Columbia!

John C. English started out in Columbia, went to Burt, then to Victor where he stayed for many years. A number of key staff of various companies changed their allegiances over the years.

George P.

[gramophone78]

Now I would have paid good money to have been a Fly on the wall during that meeting with Johnson offering "their" company back to the Columbia Exec's.... .

Before Victor's purchase of the Burt Company, it wasn't Columbia's, but an independent supplier. It was a pretty slick maneuver, and probably saved Victor. I have written at length about all the details in The Talking Machine Compendium, Discovering Antique Phonographs, and in The Sound Box (now The Antique Phonograph). It's a long story.

Correct me if I'm wrong.....I don't think Johnson gave all the master's back....did he..???. Did he not also "steal" Burt's top engineers like English..??.

The masters belonged to Johnson, so there was no giving them back to anyone. You're probably thinking of the episode described by Fenimore Johnson in his book where Eldridge - - fearing the outcome of the Burt episode - - loaded his newly-bought matrices formerly belonging to the Burt Company) in a wagon and was prepared to hide them "in the wilds of New Jersey." Eventually these matrices were marked "VTM", so when Columbia received them back, they had their competitor's initials engraved in them, and some were issued that way by Columbia!

John C. English started out in Columbia, went to Burt, then to Victor where he stayed for many years. A number of key staff of various companies changed their allegiances over the years.

George P.

Thanks for the clarification George. I meant to write the company "they" (Columbia) was using. You must have been replying while I was correcting.... . Yes, I was referring to the Fenimore book.


Still would have been an interesting meeting to over hear though.... . Loyalties out the window.... .