Earliest Zonophone?

[gramophone78]

"One of the members of this forum has one." [ridged Type C Zono cabinet marked for Export]

Yes, that is the ONE I know of and referred to [albeit obliquely].

I thought you were implying that there were several known: "There have also been early production ZonophoneS found with Prescott "export" celluloid tags and full-ridged cabinets."

Allen

I have searched my archives for photos of what I recall was a similar machine, but I failed to find them.

Perhaps if you post a request for information/photos of any Zonophone with a "Frederick Prescott" celluloid tag in the "British and European Machines" section of this forum, another example may surface.

George P.

Correct me if I'm wrong....I thought the "British and European Machines" section was for machines manufactured in Britain or Europe..?.
Were these "ribbed" Zonophone's being discussed not manufactured in the USA.. Now I'm confused.

Here is a blow up of the mechanical feed model. I wish the detail was better.

In my opinion...the center panel appears to be glass as seen on the Type A model of 1900.

The so-called "ingenious" connecting device used to attach the sound box to the horn, appears to be more like the sound box just stuffed into the horn end. Almost looks ready to play vertical records.. .

[phonogfp]

Correct me if I'm wrong....I thought the "British and European Machines" section was for machines manufactured in Britain or Europe..?.
Were these "ribbed" Zonophone's being discussed not manufactured in the USA.. Now I'm confused.

Whether "manufactured in..." or "offered exclusively in...", my thinking was that European collectors who frequent the "British and European Machines" section might know of another existing example of the Prescott export model. I was simply trying to help.

George P.

[AllenKoe]

a request for information/photos of any Zonophone with a "Frederick Prescott" celluloid tag in the "British and European Machines"

It would not appear that this Type C is, strictly speaking, a British or European machine, but simply what it states on the plate, namely an American model that was "Exported".

Has no one ever seen a ridged Type C Zonophone?

Now, in reference to the Footnote 3 which I mentioned before, from your Dec 2011 article on Zonophones, there is a comment there that Seaman was drilling out Berliner discs with the extra hole, to accommodate the Zonophone turntables (with the recessed pin).

That Footnote references the June 1899 Phonoscope, p. 9, presumably for further (supporting) details.

But in my copy of that issue of the Phonoscope, I cannot find anything there in regard to this drilling.

I hope I am not missing a page from my copy of June 1899, so would be very interested in what the Phonoscope page says in that regard ("drilling").

Much thanks.

Allen

[Starkton]

"Do we see such ads (using the term Zonophone) at the same time (Feb-Aug 1898) in Germany?

Good idea, but as most German papers from that period are still not yet digitized, let alone keyworded, I keep this task for later.

I am trying to date the appearance of the first actual Zonophone models, which used the Valiquet design (patent). The Phonoscope magazine implies that they appeared on the market in 1899, but I tend to doubt this.

Obviously, Seaman lost no time to introduce his own makes. Genuine Zonophones were shipped to Europe at least from October 1899. This is proven by a letter from William Barry Owen in London to Eldridge Reeves Johnson. On November 4, 1899, Owen wrote that the Zonophone had arrived in England.

[AllenKoe]

This (Zonophone exportation) is proven by a letter from William Barry Owen in London to Eldridge Reeves Johnson, dated November 4, 1899. Owen wrote that the[?] Zonophone had arrived in England.

This is good news indeed, Stephan. How was this information conveyed in the letter of Nov 4, 1899? Was Owen saying that he had received an actual shipment of machines (which model?), or that he had received one as an advance sample, etc.?

After all, the Feb 1900 Financial Statement (in the Nov 1899 Phonoscope) filed by National Gramophone Corp (Seaman), stated that the "new" model was NOT yet ready or sold (by Feb 1900). That would be a strange thing to say if they (actual Zono's) were indeed being supplied to Owen (in any quantity).

Thanks for the supporting quote (from Owen) to decide this matter.

Allen

[gramophone78]

This (Zonophone exportation) is proven by a letter from William Barry Owen in London to Eldridge Reeves Johnson, dated November 4, 1899. Owen wrote that the[?] Zonophone had arrived in England.

This is good news indeed, Stephan. How was this information conveyed in the letter of Nov 4, 1899? Was Owen saying that he had received an actual shipment of machines (which model?), or that he had received one as an advance sample, etc.?

After all, the Feb 1900 Financial Statement (in the Nov 1899 Phonoscope) filed by National Gramophone Corp (Seaman), stated that the "new" model was NOT yet ready or sold (by Feb 1900). That would be a strange thing to say if they (actual Zono's) were indeed being supplied to Owen (in any quantity).

Thanks for the supporting quote (from Owen) to decide this matter.

Allen

I think this is the Nov. 1899 statement.

Phonoscope Nov 1899 Part 2.jpg (211.11 KiB) Viewed 1632 times

[Starkton]

Owen wrote: "The Zonophone has arrived in England." This was certainly no single sample. Owen received reports that Edison Bell Consolidated and other firms had imported Zonophones. Theodor Birnbaum, who was just building up the Berlin agency, had also written Owen about Zonophone machines(!) and discs (obviously pirated Berliner discs) in Germany. Owen was extremely worried about the substantially lower selling prices of Seaman's goods.

It is about time that the EMI archive, from which the above information was collected by Peter Martland, opens to the public.

[vic-b]

These ads from the Journal of Applied Microbiology are from the fall of 1898. They clearly show what is being called the Gram-o-phone and Zon-o-phone almost interchangeably. Note that the phonograph displayed is a side brake Berliner, not a Zonophone. The interesting piece is the disclaimer in the first ad pictured:

“CAUTION: The unprecedented popularity of the IMPROVED GRAMOPHOME (ZON-O-PHONE), as a means of entertainment has led to many attempts at imitation, some of which are most unscrupulous; but the principles upon which the GRAMOPHOME is constructed are covered by patents so broad that anything of the same nature approaching it in excellence must be an infringement, and as such will be promptly prosecuted.”

The ads are inside front covers from the magazine. Also, the machine shown in one of the ads, (NOT the glass sided "A") is a model "D." This is probably well know to the pre-1900 collectors. Just thought it was interesting!

Regards,
Jeff

[AllenKoe]

Owen wrote: "The Zonophone has arrived in England."

Without the (actual) surrounding context from this letter, it is impossible to interpret what this brief statement by Owen means.

Surely, one must have more information about the quantity or models involved. It sounds rather rhetorical, doesn't it? "What" has arrived?

After all, we know that the word Zonophone was a term rich in ambiguity. Let us have specifics, if possible (or if known).

Allen

[gramophone78]

Owen wrote: "The Zonophone has arrived in England." This was certainly no single sample. Owen received reports that Edison Bell Consolidated and other firms had imported Zonophones. Theodor Birnbaum, who was just building up the Berlin agency, had also written Owen about Zonophone machines(!) and discs (obviously pirated Berliner discs) in Germany. Owen was extremely worried about the substantially lower selling prices of Seaman's goods.

It is about time that the EMI archive, from which the above information was collected by Peter Martland, opens to the public.

Based on what is written in the Phonoscope, Zonophone's would have been seized if they had reached England. Seems English law was permitting infringing products to be seized without question and then run through the courts.

If this is indeed the case....it seems like an enormous risk for Prescott to instigate and the possibility of a major financial loss.

Therefore, Owen seems to have had no immediate threat (in 1899) and held the upper hand (at least under English law).