Does anyone know this antqedison5947 guy on ebay???

[rizbone]

I think I saw this machine in an antique store in Mount Holley NJ. I think there was a 3K price tag on it, but the condition was so bad I wasn't interested enough to write it down.

[FloridaClay]

Anyone is entitled to keep their reserve secret if they wish, but being snarky about it is not the road to sales success. Unfortunately there are discourteous people out there who have no clue. I simply add them to my little list of sellers to avoid and move on.

Clay

[De Soto Frank]

Anyone is entitled to keep their reserve secret if they wish, but being snarky about it is not the road to sales success. Unfortunately there are discourteous people out there who have no clue. I simply add them to my little list of sellers to avoid and move on.

Clay

Well-said, Clay.

[PeterF]

Yes, this seller is difficult and/or suspicious on several levels. I think I may have had similarly unsatisfactory exchanges with him/her over the years.

But you guys are dead wrong on expectations that the reserve should be revealed, or that somehow potential buyers should have some right to know what it is. When you are negotiating to buy something from another collector, do you ask what he/she paid for it? Sometimes people will say stuff like "well, I'm into this Opera for 200 bucks, so I'm gonna need at least that for it" or "yeah, I bought this Idealia for 450, but that was back in '79, so I'm gonna have to do better..." But those are sales ploys.

Reserves are secret for a reason, and although you can always ask to learn that secret, it's disingenuous to be outraged when the answer is no.

And besides, it spices up the auction process.

[De Soto Frank]

Yes, this seller is difficult and/or suspicious on several levels. I think I may have had similarly unsatisfactory exchanges with him/her over the years.

But you guys are dead wrong on expectations that the reserve should be revealed, or that somehow potential buyers should have some right to know what it is. When you are negotiating to buy something from another collector, do you ask what he/she paid for it? Sometimes people will say stuff like "well, I'm into this Opera for 200 bucks, so I'm gonna need at least that for it" or "yeah, I bought this Idealia for 450, but that was back in '79, so I'm gonna have to do better..." But those are sales ploys.

Reserves are secret for a reason, and although you can always ask to learn that secret, it's disingenuous to be outraged when the answer is no.

And besides, it spices up the auction process.

Ummmmph. I can appreciate this view-point... to a point...


I don't see the harm in inquiring about the reserve or if there is a price they would sell it for, outright... especially if it's an item that seems to be perpetually on e-bay ( or CL, etc.)


Personally, I don't have enough life or patience left in me to deal with... "colorful", shall we say, sellers. At least not for very long.


Kind of reminds me of the local yokel (I'm sure everyone here knows one or more ) who has an old car or truck that's been sitting in the field, rotting for 50+ years, and when asked about it, replies either "it's not for sale" ( fine, cut & dry, I'll move along ), or give you a whole spiel about "how rare and valuable and one like this brought 100 million dollars at Barrett-Jackson... blah-blah-blah..."

And then, maybe some of these jokers fancy themselves "Pawn Stars"...


The four little words that I hate the most are, "make me an offer"...

[brianu]

thanks for pointing out the issue with the horn. even though I'd already decided to move on from this machine, that makes me feel much better about doing so, I hadn't even noticed it.

regarding reserves, though, I think it's ridiculous how some people feel they're so sacred. and I think the sentiment really comes down to either a misunderstanding of the auction process or else just another manipulation of it. most high end auctions houses, particularly in the art market, will readily disclose a reserve, because there's no reason not to as it serves specific purposes... it protects the seller's "investment" by establishing the lowest price he's willing to accept, even though the auction will start at a much lower opening bid to encourage bidding and whip up some adrenaline... it also helps to determine whether the seller's expectations are realistic... if you open bidding at the reserve price and get no bids, you won't have any idea how far apart you were from what the market would pay.

reserves aren't intended to be a secret and they shouldn't be. why turn a simple sale into an unnecessary game? often times shipping or transport is involved, but why should a prospective buyer put himself through the trouble of finding possible transportation and cost estimates if he doesn't even know whether an item is worth pursuing because the price may be far too high. if a seller doesn't want to disclose, that's his choice, but it's not the best practice by any stretch. and it usually, again, only communicates to me a misunderstanding of how auctions should work, or else that it's just a blatant attempt to conceal an unreasonably and unrealistically high reserve that's purposely made so to see how high the bidding will go either (1) to see what something might be worth without selling it or (2) to hold an "auction" that establishes a high bid without binding the seller to an (auction) sale, such that the seller can then solicit a sale elsewhere.

[PeterF]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I'm going to scour the web now for Robert's Rules of Auctions, or something like it, so I can learn how auctions are supposed to be run. So I guess eBay has been out of line for all these years. Wonder how they've managed to survive.

All my future auctions will be no-reserve, no buy-it-now and will start at the price where I would have set the reserve. Won't be selling much, but it'll be a nice pastime.

I will also be posting my salary details, account numbers and investment portfolio information, separately, and expect you all to do the same.

But sarcasm aside, revealing reserves is a bad business practice, if not just foolish. No advantage to the seller unless driving away potential business is a good thing somehow.

It's an auction. People bid against each other, not just to top each other to win, but to get over the unknown threshold so they CAN win it. Part of the fun, and definitely best for the seller.

[brianu]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I'm going to scour the web now for Robert's Rules of Auctions, or something like it, so I can learn how auctions are supposed to be run. So I guess eBay has been out of line for all these years. Wonder how they've managed to survive.

All my future auctions will be no-reserve, no buy-it-now and will start at the price where I would have set the reserve. Won't be selling much, but it'll be a nice pastime.

I will also be posting my salary details, account numbers and investment portfolio information, separately, and expect you all to do the same.

But sarcasm aside, revealing reserves is a bad business practice, if not just foolish. No advantage to the seller unless driving away potential business is a good thing somehow.

It's an auction. People bid against each other, not just to top each other to win, but to get over the unknown threshold so they CAN win it. Part of the fun, and definitely best for the seller.

I think you're missing my point entirely, especially with the slippery slope rhetoric. although it's certainly good to know you maintain an investment portfolio - it would concern me greatly to instead hear that your financial well-being and future retirement turned on the relative success of your ventures in the antique phonograph market.

otherwise, I'm unaware of any ebay rule or prohibition concerning the revealing of reserve prices... and like I acknowledged, it's really up to the seller. but as to whether the better decision is to reveal or not reveal or what in reality is the best practice for the seller, well, those are obviously matters for debate. and perhaps this is just my opinion alone, but as a buyer I'm usually turned off by people who claim to be selling something for which they refuse to provide a clear price, or even just a general range. to me, reserve prices serve a purpose, but I truly don't believe they were designed to create some fun unknown threshold. and frankly, I still don't see how that could be better for the seller, but again, I imagine that's debateable.

[PeterF]

Just to clarify, I was referring to eBay's default practice of not posting the reserve price publicly, and thus allowing the seller to decide whether he/she wants to reveal it. And that's certainly not "refus[ing] to provide a clear price" because...it's an auction.

And yes, it's a hobby, not an investment vehicle.

[FloridaClay]

Not disclosing reserves in auctions of all kinds is a fairly common practice and I see nothing whatever wrong with that. Indeed I can't think of anybody I know who is familiar with auctions whom I've ever heard express a contrary position. While it may frustrate the heck out of our curiosity, it most definitely does not make a seller a sinner!

Clay