VIC 1 Motor Issue

[Canuk Phonographs]

I'm thinking of the washer/spacer that is on the spring barrel shaft between the spring barrel and the chassis. If the spring barrel is too tight, it will have difficulty unwinding. I didn't see it when you removed the spring barrel from the chassis.

[CDBPDX]

I'm thinking of the washer/spacer that is on the spring barrel shaft between the spring barrel and the chassis. If the spring barrel is too tight, it will have difficulty unwinding. I didn't see it when you removed the spring barrel from the chassis.

There was a washer, more a slip shim than a spacer, on the spring barrel shaft between the drive gear and the chassis. The alignment of the spring barrel looks good. There doesn't seem to be any binding when the governor is not connected.

Thanks! Cliff

[Lucius1958]

One other variable: have you tried adjusting the relation between the governor and the spindle gear? Sometimes, the contact between these two can be very delicate to adjust: by trying various positions of the gear on the spindle, perhaps you might find the right balance.

Another thing: have you tried these adjustments with the motor in its proper position, rather than upside down? Sometimes gravity can be tricky.

Bill

[Marco Gilardetti]

Having seen your movie, it really seems to me that you have a problem in the regulator wormgear and transmission gear. First of all it should not make that "clack-clack-clack-clack" sound when it revolves, it should be very very silent, almost noiseless. Also, when it comes to a halt, it shouldn't stop all of a sudden as it does, as if it bumped into an obstacle: it should do it very very smoothly. My opinion is that there is not enough backlash and/or the angle of the axle is incorrect. Adjusting the regulator is very tricky and there is a quite narrow "sweet spot" where it will actually work, all other positions will more or less prejudice the functionality of the motor.

Remember that, by rotating and moving the regulator bushings (which should be eccentrics and not just have a hole in the exact middle) you can 1) move the wormgear upwards and downwards on the line of its axis and change the point in which it engages over the transmission gear by moving the bushings up or down in the same direction 2) increase or decrease the on-axis backlash by moving the bushings in opposite directions 3) move it closer or farther from the transmission gear and change the engagement point by rotating the bushings in the same direction 4) adjust the angle with which the wormgear and the transmission gear engage each other by rotating the bushing in opposite directions one in respect to the other.

So you have a lot of degrees of freedom. As a general rule based on my experience, the regulator will work well if you leave MORE backlash than you would think. I again suggest to adjust it with the spring barrel removed but everything else in place. I would begin by keeping the two eccentrics aligned on the same axis, so not giving the wormgear a specific angle. If some wear is visible on the wormgear, at first put it right in front of the transmission gear, as it is the section of the wormgear that at the factory was devised to be the best one in order to have an efficient motor. You will then see that if you move the wormgear too close to the transmission gear, it will brake it for too much friction. If you move it too farther, it will brake the rotation again or disengage completely. Remember also that, by rotating the eccentrics almost 360°, you can have the wormgear to engage from the upper as well as from the lower side of the transmission gear: usually only one of the two positions will work fine. The sweet spot has to be found not "very close to the transmission gear leaving a bit of backlash", but basically in the middle of the said two extreme positions, that is the wormgear and the transmission gear shall engage not very tightly but quite loosely instead. There must be a bit of on-axis backlash also.

When done, the regulator assembly shall spin with almost no noise and by applying almost no torque to the spindle. It should give you the feeling of being almost free to revolve, as if it was made of air.

Enough for the regulator. The spindle wormgear looks OK, at least in your pictures. The brass main gear of the springs' barrel doesn't look awesome instead, but it doesn't look terrible either. It might be the problem as well as it might not be, but I say let's talk about it later, it really seems that the regulator has to be re-checked judging by the movie.

[martinola]

Another thing: have you tried these adjustments with the motor in its proper position, rather than upside down? Sometimes gravity can be tricky.

What Bill said.

Years ago I rebuilt my VVXVI motor but it wouldn't run until I started working on it in the actual position it was going to play in. I had forgotten about gravity. It was the spindle gear that was binding. I had forgotten about that until Bill mentioned it just now. (Dang! I forgot about gravity twice! Gonna have to remember that one!)

Best of luck,

Martin

[JerryVan]

Cliff,

Great photos. In order to locate just exactly where the binding is occurring, do this. With the motor all assembled, wind it up again. Spin the governor to get it started, as you do in the video. After it comes to a stop, very gently and slowly rotate the governor just slightly back & forth. Notice any drag, especially when rotating the governor in the direction it should be turning. But, more importantly, notice if the brass spindle gear is rotating along with the governor shaft or if it's sitting still, allowing the governor worm to rotate freely within the backlash between the two gears.

If the spindle shaft & brass gear stays still when you slightly rotate the governor, then the binding is in the barrel gear/spindle worm. If the brass gear rotates with the governor worm, and is constantly "pushing" against the governor worm, then the binding is in the brass gear/governor worm.

The way that governor stops after you spin it is like someone put the brakes on. Something is definitely binding somewhere. It's going to take some patience and careful observation to see just where the problem is.

[VintageTechnologies]

I would look hard to see if the spindle hole has worn out. My friend Ron Haring once asked me to make a service call to a lady in my area. The Sonora she purchased from Ron had played just fine when she bought it -- in fact I had played it myself beforehand. A few weeks later, it froze up. I arrived with a full set of tools, ready for anything.

The spring was fully wound and I had to work at the pawl to slowly uncrank the machine until the spring was unwound. After removing the spring barrel, the shaft turned freely! I cleaned and lubed all the parts and reassembled the motor. Same problem. I shipped the motor to Ron and he determined the spindle hole was oval shaped. Rather than drill out the spindle hole and install a bushing, he simply replaced the cast iron motor plate with a spare. Problem solved. The torque of the spring had put the shaft into a bind because of the misshapen hole.

[JerryVan]

Cliff,

Before you do anything else, tell me if the gear teeth on the brass governor drive gear are cut at an angle, (like the teeth on the spring barrel gear), or of if they're cut straight. They should be cut straight. It's hard to tell from your photos. If they're cut at angle, then you've got the wrong gear and it will never run right.

[miker2001]

This is like a suspense thriller. I cannot wait for the ending!!!

[CDBPDX]

GOT IT RUNNING! I had the spindle gear adjusted incorrectly. It seemed it was more important to adjust it so the spindle wasn't slipping up and down, but that didn't work. To get it running, I had to slide the gear down the shaft a little. The spindle now has about ⅛" up and down play but it runs smooth and strong. This shouldn't make any difference when running 'cuz the torque of the spring unwinding will keep the spindle in it's proper place during play.

I posted a video to YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEY7wYKcgl8

Whew! Thanks for all the help! Sometimes it's the simple things...

Cliff