What is the safest way to re-grease a spring motor?

[oldphonographsteve]

My Edison Amberola VI is, to say the least, rather noisy from excessively loud thumping from the spring motor barrel. I have never opened a mainspring barrel before, and am wary about going about it for the first time. What is the safest way of going about this? Any help would be appreciated.

-Steve

[DGPros]

I just did a 4 spring from a Victor 8-12 last night.My first time by the way. I took the prerequisite steps of safety goggles, light jacket to protect arms and of course gloves. My neighbors gave me funny looks in the 80 degree heat,but better safe than sorry right. I'm not sure how much different an Edison is but I'm sure someone here will know better than I. I watched youtube videos by chilldude2007 prior also.This saved me from loosing a small ball bearing and a comfort level to give it a try. That and the fact my machine definitely needed a re greasing. I took it slow and had no issues, but did have one instance when it tried to get away from me. to no avail. I will be putting them back in, which should could be a whole other story in the next few days. Oh and take tons of pictures. Good luck https://youtu.be/mEkUpM-yykM

[VintageTechnologies]

Before you take anything apart, first check the perimeter of the spring barrel to see if there is a removable screw. If so, that is a grease port. By the time of the Amberola VI, at least some models had that feature.

If your spring has a screw, I suggest you try Vaseline as the lubricant. Chances are, there may be enough residual graphite left to blend with the fresh Vaseline. You can buy Vaseline in squeeze tubes that look like toothpaste.

First, wind the spring fully, then remove the screw. Hold the tube tight to the hole and squeeze in the Vaseline. Have the screw ready in hand to replace ASAP when you remove the tube - air back pressure will quickly try to push the Vaseline out! Let the spring unwind completely and then wind it up again and repeat the procedure. That should be enough. After a few cycles the Vaseline and graphite will be intermixed and redistributed among the spring coils. The spring should quiet down considerably if not altogether. That trick spared me taking my Opera apart. I probably won't have to worry about it for another 20 years.

If that procedure fails, then you are no worse off - you will have to open the spring and clean and lube the hard way.

[oldphonographsteve]

Thanks for the help! I will definitely try the vaseline method and post the results later.

[Zeppy]

Pay someone else to do it.

[DGPros]

I hear that Zeppy. Of course the first machine with non working motor for me is a 4 springer!Messy job for sure.

[Marco Gilardetti]

Yes, a 4-springer is not ideal for beginners, although I also had to begin with a 2-springer and managed to do it well. I suggest to practice first with the spring of a portable (whichever, even a working unit that doesn't need a spring replacement), just to understand the basics and get the "know-how".

It's not a very difficult task, but requires force and firm hand. It's very important to see someone do it first, and youtube is perfect for that: wordy descriptions of the task are almost useless IMHO. Springs are not sharp on their edges contrary to common belief, but I suggest anyway to use a thin pair of gloves with a layer of rubber over the palms, like these ones just to give you an idea. They won't worsen your tactility too much, will protect your fingers, and I have the feeling that they improve a bit one's grip over the greased metal surface.

Personally I would not refill the spring barrel with vaseline. It might have been the best lubricant one century ago, but there are better and more stable compounds today IMHO. Molybdenum disulfide grease comes to mind as an almost ideal product. Of course other people might have a radically different opinion, this is just mine.

However, the only way to be sure to have a silent motor with a healthy spring is to disassemble the springs and clean the dried-up sludge before re-greasing. Adding extra fresh grease might work in some cases, but won't work in most cases. So: good luck (I'd also try to simply add fresh grease before putting my hands on a 4-springer!) but be prepared to disassemble the springs anyway.

[Victrolacollector]

I have never seen or repaired a 4 spring motor? How many plays does the 4 spring Victor motors provide on a winding? Which models had 4 spring motors?

[mattrx]

I cannot tell you the entire list of machines with 4 spring motors, but the 8-12 I own, as well as the credenza, VV 130 and 8-35 all have them. I think most if not all of the big orthophonics have them. Victor Data Book also says the XVII had a 4 spring motor and those began being manufactured in late 1916.

Matt

[VintageTechnologies]

Springs are not sharp on their edges contrary to common belief

Not always. I have installed new springs whose edges were rounded, that is true. However, I have cleaned old springs whose edges were [worn?] so flat that their corners were sharp as knives. I removed and reinstalled the springs in a Victor III barehanded. The palms of my hands and fingers had dozens of shallow cuts. I have used thin gloves with a rubber coating ever since.

Personally I would not refill the spring barrel with vaseline. It might have been the best lubricant one century ago, but there are better and more stable compounds today IMHO. Molybdenum disulfide grease comes to mind as an almost ideal product.

I agree that Moly grease is superior and that is what I use when I must do a complete overhaul. However, I learned the Vaseline trick from a full-time phonograph dealer who has been in the business for 30 years and undoubtedly has serviced hundreds of machines. I say again, you don't have much to lose by trying it first. It has worked for him and for me.

I find that sometimes one of the biggest headaches of spring repairs is unhooking the coupling shaft from the coils when two springs are coupled together in separate barrels. The coils can be wrapped very tightly around the shaft and it takes a lot of effort to turn the springs backward far enough to build up the torque to uncouple the hooks and pry the springs apart. I would like to hear how others manage that.