HMV No.7 (HFO) after some TLC, help needed!!!

[gramophone78]

Thanks for all your great comments! , quick question is there a way to know if my brass horn is an original or a repro?

After closer inspection of the pictures and information, I have to recant my position regarding the horns authenticity.

[Starkton]

There is no question...it is an original UK all brass horn. I have never heard of a repro of this horn.

On the contrary, these very rare UK brass horns are notorious for reproductions. For example, I am a little concerned about several soldering joints which are rather poorly executed on the example here. We need an attested original for direct comparison. For instance, this horn from an earlier thread looks original to me: http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... 2270#p2270

[Calle]

Well... actually I do have 3 brass horns: 2 original and a repro (so... they were made - as far as I know in UK); if you like I can compare them or add some photos.

Also funny: most European collectors prefer machines "with history"; cleaned but no new parts, new nickel and polished... American collectors mostly prefer near new made machines...

[Steve]

The horn is almost definitely reproduction. The back-bracket, elbow and winder did not originate on this machine so it looks to me like an assembled machine with slightly disparate parts and an opportunist has grabbed one of the many repro horns produced of this type over here during the past 30 years. This machine NEVER had a brass horn and a horn of this type is rarer than Hen's Teeth, trust me! The back-bracket should be nickel anyway so you would "need" to re-nickel the arm to match it in any event and the elbow looks like a modern incorrectly chromium plated example so you might as well go for it. In all honesty you might just as well re-nickel it all and polish the horn until we can all see our faces in it.

It's not going to harm anything and it certainly won't devalue it.

[gramophone78]

The horn is almost definitely reproduction. The back-bracket, elbow and winder did not originate on this machine so it looks to me like an assembled machine with slightly disparate parts and an opportunist has grabbed one of the many repro horns produced of this type over here during the past 30 years. This machine NEVER had a brass horn and a horn of this type is rarer than Hen's Teeth, trust me! The back-bracket should be nickel anyway so you would "need" to re-nickel the arm to match it in any event and the elbow looks like a modern incorrectly chromium plated example so you might as well go for it. In all honesty you might just as well re-nickel it all and polish the horn until we can all see our faces in it.

It's not going to harm anything and it certainly won't devalue it.

Well, I had no idea repro 24" all brass horns of UK/Eropean origin are or were made. However, after enlarging the pics, I can see the unusual amount of solder at the joins.

I also agree with Steve regarding the other incorrect parts.

I would see if any patent info is stamped on the small end.
As mentioned, the US Victor version of this horn has such stamping on the small end.

I'm not aware of a copy of the US version being made.

However, these days....anything is possible I guess.
I will edit my previous post.. .

[dennislpr]

Here are some pictures of the motor and crank, the elbow is not chromium is nickel plating since it has a yellowish tone to it, chrome has more of a blueish tone. For sure this elbow is nickel plating. My horn looks exactly like the one in the picture, but Calle if you want to post more pictures of your horns for comparison that's great.

[dennislpr]

Hello guys, look at this ad that I've found online. The slip in elbow and rear bracket look the same.

[Starkton]

Did you notice that the HMV No. 7 of 1921 has a double-spring motor, unlike yours with triple-spring?

[dennislpr]

Yes I did but look at this thread from another member, don't know what to make of it.
http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... 11&t=12262

Also look at this website and click Details for more pictures.
http://www.grammofonmuseum.no/Grammofon ... -mod_7.htm

[Starkton]

Yes I did but look at this thread from another member, don't know what to make of it.

@Steve already mentioned that horn, back bracket and crank of your triple-spring motored HMV No. 7 were replaced. The images of the thread and the website you cite show the older version of 1913-c.1920. I just read in the HMV book that the double-spring motor of 1921 was only used (for this type) with cases in mahagony. Therefore, if you have a very late model in oak the plug elbow might be correct. But as you can see from the catalogue of 1921 the back bracket was nickeled, not painted black.

Originally, the machine came with a wooden horn or a painted Morning Glory horn. Experience has shown, that rare brass horns usually don't show up on gramophones composed of parts. Perhaps @Calle presents some pictures for comparison.