***1899 Berliner Trademark Gramophone w/Seamless Horn***

[Zwebie]

Just Listed on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/111711668222?

***1899 Berliner Trademark Gramophone w/Ultra-Rare Seamless Brass Horn***

Cheers, Bob S.

[vic-b]

Bob!!! Say it isn't so!!!

Good luck! It sure is hard to part with these rarities.

Jeff
Wisconsin

[Steve]

First of all please let me put my hand up and admit I know nothing about these particular rare horns but I find it a bit odd that for all the "one piece" emphasis, the separated brass elbow (brass?) is quite crudely soldered to the end of the long unbroken horn section. Is this genuinely how they were originally made and assembled? Even if it is 100% correct it doesn't quite look the part or "aesthetically" fit. It is quite a rugged (ragged?) connection and you might have thought they would have made a neat threaded connecton / joint similar to Zonophone or Pathé.

[Zwebie]

[Steve] - First of all please let me put my hand up and admit I know nothing about these particular rare horns but I find it a bit odd that for all the "one piece" emphasis, the separated brass elbow (brass?) is quite crudely soldered to the end of the long unbroken horn section. Is this genuinely how they were originally made and assembled? Even if it is 100% correct it doesn't quite look the part or "aesthetically" fit. It is quite a rugged (ragged?) connection and you might have thought they would have made a neat threaded connecton / joint similar to Zonophone or Pathé.

Yes, this is exactly how they were made, in two pieces!
They were also made the same way for cylinder machines, (see pic).
Yes, they only slip onto the end of the reproducer, eliminating the need for a leather elbow.
I'm not sure what you mean by it doesn't "aesthetically" fit, but yes, it is a 100% correct option, (see other pics).
As far as "one piece" emphasis, it is never stated as such in the listing.
As far as rarity of the horn, when was the last time you saw one for sale?

Cheers, Bob S.

[gramophone78]

In my opinion, the horn is 100% correct in every way. A rare horn to find in good condition.

I believe these were offered as an after market horn by H&S in 1899 for the Improved Gramophone.

[johannes]

Superb item in every way. Great piece indeed

[Steve]

Yes, this is exactly how they were made, in two pieces!
They were also made the same way for cylinder machines, (see pic).
Yes, they only slip onto the end of the reproducer, eliminating the need for a leather elbow.
I'm not sure what you mean by it doesn't "aesthetically" fit, but yes, it is a 100% correct option, (see other pics).
As far as "one piece" emphasis, it is never stated as such in the listing.
As far as rarity of the horn, when was the last time you saw one for sale?

Cheers, Bob S.

Thanks for the confirmation and I agree that it is certainly a rarity. I don't know if these horns were ever made available in the UK but given that the book "His Master's Gramophone" doesn't show or refer to a Trademark with the seamless horn, I doubt it somehow. As for seeing them for sale here, are you joking? I haven't seen a genuine Trademark for sale here with standard horn for at least 2 decades!

BTW, I wasn't questioning the authenticity of your machine but more criticising the design of the joint. You have a wonderful smooth seamless horn and then an obvious soldered joint at the elbow junction. Pathé and Zonophone dealt with this in a far neater way with threaded joints making connection almost invisible. That would have looked better on a seamless horn (what I meant by one piece). My Zonophone has a threaded elbow so you only see a neat collar on the horn / elbow junction and it is not immediately obvious to your eyes that you're seeing a joint.

Yes, it's a great machine and good luck with the sale! If I had a spare $10,000 at the moment I'd buy it myself.

[vic-b]

My Zonophone has a threaded elbow so you only see a neat collar on the horn / elbow junction and it is not immediately obvious to your eyes that you're seeing a joint.

American Zonophones either had a leather elbow for the earliest front mounts, a soldered 90 degree pressed fit soldered brass elbow, or a 90 degree soldered brass elbow with a knurled thumb screw to hold the long throat reproducer. I do not know how much aesthetics played into a 115 year old horn elbow design?

[Lucius1958]

WOW!

I see a few days' bidding have led to a good price on this machine. Good fortune to you in the next few days!

Bill