Is this the real McCoy?

[SydneyAde]

Hi all

It's been a while since I've logged into this site, although I check it regularly.

Just recently I purchased the subject machine from a lovely retired couple, South West of Sydney who said they
had owned it for 15 years, and that it was repaired by the same person who repaired their grandfather clock.

The pics in the local non-ebay site where it was listed for sale made it look like the real McCoy, although on closer inspection I'm
no longer certain, and here is why:

1. The interior doesn't have the oil staining you'd expect from a machine of this age, for an open motor (Beltona 51).
2. It looks like it's been pulled apart and put back together, ever so neatly.
3. The tone arm and soundbox nickle/chrome plating is different to the tone arm mounting flange and stop mechanism plating.
4. There are no identifying stickers/tags on the outside of the cabinet.
5. The motor doesn't really seem robust enough.

I could be mistaken on one or all counts, and this could be one very well kept little machine (6 ⅜" h x 15 ¼" w x 13" deep - I have an imperial tape measure handy).

The chap from whom I purchased it said that the clockmaker was adamant the machine was made in 1913, and the grill pattern certainly looks like something
from that era.

Any information gratefully received.

Regards Ade

[epigramophone]

The Beltona name first appeared in 1912 as a brand of J.G.Murdoch & Co, one of the UK's biggest gramophone retailers.

The tonearm on your machine is of the swan neck design and appears to be chrome plated, which would date it to the very late 1920's or the 1930's. It looks not unlike an HMV or post-1931 Columbia component, so it is certainly not the original.

I cannot read the name on the motor as the picture is upside down, but if there are no tell-tale additional holes in the motor board it is probably the original.

Roger.

[Odeon]

I cannot read the name on the motor as the picture is upside down

Reads Dulcephone to me, which became later Decca.

Dulcephone.jpg (128.65 KiB) Viewed 2656 times

[epigramophone]

Thankyou Odeon. All becomes clear with the picture the right way up!

Assuming that the motor is original, it seems that this is a "hornless" Dulcephone with a Beltona soundbox on a much later tonearm. Either the original tonearm became damaged, or was replaced by a previous owner/repairer in an effort to update the machine.

[estott]

Some of these lightweight hornless machines have easily detachable arms, and they easily get lost.

[SydneyAde]

Thanks Roger, Odeon, epigramophone & estott

You've provided me with very useful information. I am feeling very embarrassed, given I read "Dulcephone" and I read "Beltona"
and for what ever reason it didn't gel (scary). My only excuse is I'm down with the flu at the moment.

Can you believe I've been doing Google searches on both, I am clearly not living in the moment…

Would you know if machines of this type were manufactured with registration plates/transfers detailing the model etc. ?

Regards
Ade

[Odeon]

My only excuse is I'm down with the flu at the moment...

Hope you get well the next days!
Just take a look at our own great site, definitely some similaritys to your gramophone (Break, Speed control...)

dulcephone.jpg (183.11 KiB) Viewed 2573 times

[/center]

Dulcephone: http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... 64&start=0

Grüße

[SydneyAde]

My only excuse is I'm down with the flu at the moment...

Hope you get well the next days!
Just take a look at our own great site, definitely some similaritys to your gramophone (Break, Speed control...)

The attachment dulcephone.jpg is no longer available

[/center]

Dulcephone: http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... 64&start=0

Grüße

Thanks Odeon for your wishes and the reassuring information. I did some more searching this morning
and actually came across these pics etc.

If not mistaken, a Dulcephone soundbox sold on ebay.com.au last week (similar to attached pic, that I copied from the web), and
I am wondering if the original soundbox for my machine would have born any resemblance?

Regards
Ade

[Curt A]

It appears to be a low end (price wise) machine when made. Those machines often use parts from various makers and do not always have decals or ID plates naming the manufacturer. It appears to be real, other than the mentioned tonearm and one clue to age is the original rubber feet on the bottom of the case have flattened out and hardened with age... I personally, like the odd no-name small machines.

[SydneyAde]

It appears to be a low end (price wise) machine when made. Those machines often use parts from various makers and do not always have decals or ID plates naming the manufacturer. It appears to be real, other than the mentioned tonearm and one clue to age is the original rubber feet on the bottom of the case have flattened out and hardened with age... I personally, like the odd no-name small machines.

Hi Curt

Thanks for your helpful information! Yes, it has three out of four flat feet and the fourth has the metal
pin part remaining.

The non original tone arm and soundbox has the needle sitting almost perpendicular to the record, and subsequently
creates too much friction, slowing down the record. I thought by raising the turntable slightly I might alter the angle
of the needle, though that interferes with the braking surface.

Also the motor is quite flimsy and definitely needs a thorough clean. I agree with you, these "no frills" machines have character
and I really like the craftsmanship that went into the cabinet, as well as the "art deco-ie" grill. I think it will restore nicely.
Although the Australian climate has seen the wooden top shrink slightly, widening the crack between the two pieces of timber.

I removed the turntable (via a grub-screw under the turntable) and can see the motor mounting screws have seemingly never been
tampered with. I guess the clockmaker who repaired this (according to the seller), removed the motor from underneath.

I was also told the timber is English Oak.

This will be a good machine to continue to practice and build my skills on, given its simplicity. At the moment the AUD & USD exchange rate
is certainly not in my favour, and has caused a halt to my phono-mania/itis, thank goodness.

Regards Ade