Victor VI price?

[Steve]

Thanks again, Bruce.

Both were very nice machines and probably better than anything being offered at the moment.

[JerryVan]

Sorry guys. I'm not nearly as skeptical about the eBay Vic. VI. I would bet money that the back bracket striping/decals are original. The finish still shows enough "craze" in it to convince me that it too is original. Has it been cleaned & polished? Probably, but I don't feel it's been overdone or detrimental. This is a very nice Vic. VI. That said, maybe the price is a bit high, maybe not. I've definitely seen them sell for less, but they were not this nice. I really can't find a problem with this machine. Maybe the felt???

In the race car hobby, they say speed costs, and extreme speed costs extremely. With machines like this, quality & condition costs, and extreme quality & condition costs extremely.

(BTW, I have NO connection with this machine... if I did, it wouldn't be for sale!)

[brianu]

I agree, I don't see anything wrong with that VI on ebay either other than the price (and perhaps the seller's third-person reference to himself in the listing description)... I may not have seen hundreds of VI's in my time, but that bracket, its stenciling, and the overall finish look fine (original and not redone) to me. At first I thought it included the record cabinet as well, which would make the price more reasonable... but it doesn't. I'd also think there's a value to having some work done for you, mechanical stuff like rebuilding the reproducer and motor... but that's definitely not worth $2000, and I don't think it's been done here anyway. Value-wise I'd think this should fall in line with the other two mentioned in this thread, the two that were offered here a few months ago for 5300 to 5700 or so, although Brad would probably disagree.

[Steve]

I am not alone in seeing that the horn has probably had a re-amalgamated finish. If the original untouched finish was as good as the pictures might imply the decal wouldn't be so heavily rubbed out or worn. There appears to be some detritus around the edges of the recessed "spear points". I'm not convinced that this shows an untouched horn - I've never seen an HMV / Victor horn like this with those tell-tale signs, that HASN'T been messed with.

I agree about the cabinet finish and I have already said this before. However as "original" as it might be, it's too red and dark to be a 110 year old finish, without some form of over-staining, artificial darkening etc.

The rest is probably ok but again I wonder how 110 year old gold-plating can look that new and perfect? There was another VI on Ebay a few months back - that example had normal signs of age and use which are curiously absent from this example. I have also seen genuine machines which have been stored in blankets and heavily wrapped up for 90 years. They look much BETTER than this machine, obviously, with the shellac still retaining a mirror finish and rich and dark in colour. This machine falls between the two camps. It's not good enough to be a time-capsule example but it's far too good to exhibit 110 years of age. I think it has been (quite well) restored in places.

[brianu]

I've seen gold plating clean up exceptionally well, even by just soaking it in something like ammonia for a bit. and regarding the finish on the case and horn, reasonable minds (and eyes) can always differ... by "re-amalgamating," are you referring as well to cleaning with something like kotton kleanser, gojo or the like (which can in many cases produce fairly remarkable results), or something more intensive than that?

[Steve]

No, I'm talking about fairly irreversible alteration of the shellac finish by dissolving the shellac with mineral spirits and using a polishing pad to re-polish the surface. It's basically re-polishing with the original substrate rather than new button polish. Using Gojo or any other cleaner is perfectly acceptable because you are not dissolving the finish. 110 years of shellac exposure to UV will change and age the colour and surface. It is this characteristic which cannot be reversed once someone has re-amalgamated the surface finish.

Have you ever applied lacquer over aged button / French Polish? You will see the colour and transparency of the original finish change and you cannot turn the "new look" back to what it was before.

[Steve]

FWIW, I told the seller I was looking for a smart original, unrestored example and he replied that this one was probably too "nice". Make of that what you will!

[brianu]

that's what I thought, just wanted to clarify. and yes, I've done this before with mixed results (and only a couple of times as an experiment on trashed machines I was parting out).

I just didn't see the horn decal deterioration and the slight areas of built-up debris or whatever (in the spear tips?) as necessarily indicating such re-amalgamation, as I've seen the former result from just poor storage over time and the latter due even to gojo-type cleaning (where the grime and excess cleaner isn't all removed as well as it should have been).

no matter, even if this example were as "unmolested" as you'd prefer, I'd never advise you or anyone to pay that much for a VI.

[brianu]

FWIW, I told the seller I was looking for a smart original, unrestored example and he replied that this one was probably too "nice". Make of that what you will!

ha. so "too nice" means not original, nor unrestored nor, presumably, smart?

[Steve]

Thanks for the advice, Brian.

Yes, I'm getting the general feedback that the price range is more $4000-5000. I would gladly pay more for a really good example that "looked right" but I'm not going to get fleeced in the process.