Walnut or Mahogany? Credenza vs. Viva Tonal 810

[marcapra]

I just took delivery of two new phonographs, a Victrola Credenza and a Columbia Viva-Tonal 810. The 810 came out in 1926 to compete with Victor's Credenza. After I finish some mechanical work on both of these, I plan to have a battle of the machines along with my Brunswick Cortez. I wonder if any other collector in the world has all three? But my question today has to do with mahogany or walnut? I already know that the Columbia 810 is mahogany as the walnut version has a different number, 800. Is my Credenza walnut or mahogany?

[estott]

I am pretty certain your Credenza is Walnut

[De Soto Frank]

Looks like Walnut to me...

FWIW, both my 8-12s are Walnut.


Your new acquisitions both look like very nice examples.

[larryh]

Marc,

In the "Look for the Dog" book on page 193 I find that a orthophonic Eight-Twelve is pictured with the description as Walnut Veneer. It has the same pattern to the doors as your Credenza. I wasn't sure at first but the finish did appear original.

On the sound, I had both machines for some years. I felt the Columbia had an edge in some ways to the sound. The reproducer was very simple to rebuilt as well, a real plus. The only negative about the sound I found was that it was very directional and one side of the sitting area received more of the sound that say the left side area. I have mentioned that before and others disputed that, my recollection of the horn was that it favored the right side. In early reviews there can be found comparisons where the Columbia was considered to have a better overall sound than Victor at that time. I only got rid of mine when I needed to cut back on machines and the Credenza had a more even sound from the horn and was pretty close to the Columbia while taking up less space in size. Either are wonderful machines, I wouldn't mind running across the 810 again someday. My recollection was that the 800 was a slightly less decorative cabinet, not so sure about the wood types?

Larry

[Oceangoer1]

I wouldn't mind running across the 810 again someday

There are currently 3 of the 800 series ( two 810's and an 800 ) on eBay right now

[Edisone]

I'll say Walnut, too. The carefully arranged stripe patterns on the doors sure makes it look walnutty, anyway.

Both your new Columbia and the Credenza are showpieces, by the way; simply stunning.

[bigshot]

IAfter I finish some mechanical work on both of these, I plan to have a battle of the machines along with my Brunswick Cortez.

Clash of the titans!

I'll put five bucks on the Brunnie to win.

[estott]

IAfter I finish some mechanical work on both of these, I plan to have a battle of the machines along with my Brunswick Cortez.

Clash of the titans!

I'll put five bucks on the Brunnie to win.

I wouldn't- the Cortez has strong points but the one I've heard makes Orthophonic recordings sound overpowering and strident, even with a soft needle. It sounds fine with Brunswick electric recordings & they may have been balanced for it. I've had a similar theory about Columbia's Viva Tonal recordings being balanced to suit their machines.

[larryh]

[
I wouldn't- the Cortez has strong points but the one I've heard makes Orthophonic recordings sound overpowering and strident, even with a soft needle. It sounds fine with Brunswick electric recordings & they may have been balanced for it. I've had a similar theory about Columbia's Viva Tonal recordings being balanced to suit their machines.

That may explain why Columbia records often sounded better than the Victor counterparts at the time? I only have an example of the Panatrope Reproducer from a portable I picked up like new here some time back. It seems to do a very fine job at reproduction but I agree that most portable Brunswicks I have owned have extra loud reproducers for some reason. The Orthophonic Victor by comparison was softer in tone. However the other portable I have which is a mica reproducer is a Telefunken. That thing needs a soft needle for almost every record and sometimes is still too loud, as can the Brunswick be.

Larry

[bigshot]

the Cortez has strong points but the one I've heard makes Orthophonic recordings sound overpowering and strident, even with a soft needle. It sounds fine with Brunswick electric recordings & they may have been balanced for it. I've had a similar theory about Columbia's Viva Tonal recordings being balanced to suit their machines.

I'm sure the recordings were engineered to match the machines, but my Cortez plays everything I throw at it extremely well... not just Orthophonics and Viva Tonals and early electric Brunswicks, but early acoustic records and later 78s all the way to the early 50s too. It is amazingly versatile. Not at all strident, but loud clear and balanced. Not as much bass as the Credenza, but clearer and more present sound, particularly on vocals and solo instruments.

My VV-X with Exhibition is considerably more strident and loud than my Cortez, but it focuses the sound into a tighter beam than the big Cortez horn does.