Ready To Throw My Columbia BF Out The Window...

[FellowCollector]

Well, the new Columbia governor springs arrived today from Ron Sitko.

My first objective was to compare all of them for consistency: all the same length, all holes matching up perfectly when stacked one on top of the other.

The governor springs passed those tests. All of the springs had a very slight bend at the center which is also fine.

I did notice that all of the governor springs had slightly angled ends like this:
________
_______/

And, in fact, the first spring that I installed had to be removed and the ends filed to be like this:
_______
_______|

because the long side of the angled end was hitting the large brass governor drive gear since on Columbia governors that large brass governor drive gear rotates VERY CLOSE to one end of the governor spring.

So, I filed each spring end to remove the angled end. Not a big deal but I would have preferred to simply install the governor springs as is. For what it's worth, I'll mention this to Ron whom I've known and purchased parts from for more than 25 years but I'm reasonably confident there's not much he can do about how the ends of the governor springs are punched.

Anyway, everything else about the governor springs is superb and after I had the ends filed to perfect edges I installed them.

And now...the moment of truth...

Crank up that potent 4-spring motor and closely watch the governor weights begin their rotation...

The weights spun in perfect alignment! BUT...........

The confounded friction disc is warped....dang it.

I know this because I compared this rotating aluminum (pretty sure it's aluminum anyway) friction disc with the one on my other Columbia BF and that one rotates perfectly true.

So, I now know what the problem with my flutter is: a warped friction disc. So, please, if anyone knows how I can get mine trued up so that it spins perfectly true or if you know of someone who has this part please let me know.

Oh well. At least I know what I need for sure now since the weights and springs run perfectly true. I've not called Ron to see if he carries this friction disc but I presume he doesn't.

Any help is sincerely appreciated!

Doug

[phonogfp]

I once straightened an out-of-true governor disc by carefully and gently clamping it in a vise over and over and over while rotating it slightly between pressure cycles. I bent a file card over each jaw of the vice so as not to mark the disc. I devoted 5-10 minutes to this project, and after that the disc was perfectly true.

Note especially the words "carefully" and "gently" in the first sentence above...

George P.

[Phono48]

I had exactly the same problem with a warped friction disc. Solved by clamping the disc in a long nut and bolt, and getting a friend to skim the surface in his lathe.

Barry

[FellowCollector]

I once straightened an out-of-true governor disc by carefully and gently clamping it in a vise over and over and over while rotating it slightly between pressure cycles.

Thanks George. This procedure makes perfect sense. I will try it! Since the friction disc here is aluminum (albeit really old aluminum!) I can't imagine it will require much resistance from the vise to true it up.

I had exactly the same problem with a warped friction disc. Solved by clamping the disc in a long nut and bolt, and getting a friend to skim the surface in his lathe.

Barry

Thanks for your idea Barry. I'm going to try George's vise procedure first to see if that works. My next option was to take it (or send it) to someone who is handy with a lathe. Many Columbia cylinder graphophones (including this one) have the aluminum friction disc and governor shaft sleeve as a single unit so extra care would also need to be considered relative to bending that sleeve.

Doug

[FellowCollector]

For those interested, I have an update on my late model Columbia BF Peerless flutter issue...

I fiddled around for hours with the governor: swapping springs (old for new), new weights replacing old weights, made a half-fast effort at trying to remove the tiny warp in the aluminum friction disc and still had the confounded flutter.

So, here's what I did... I blew the dust off my other Columbia BF which is a 2 minute only machine that had been sitting unplayed for 25 years since shortly after I bought it at the Brimfield antique show in 1990. I could never get the speed right on that one. It would play fast, then slow down, play fast then slow down and so forth. So, it has sat on a record cabinet for 25 years covered up. But since I've recently fiddled around so much with the governor on the newly acquired 2/4 minute Columbia BF I thought that it would be a good time to fiddle with the old 2 minute BF and get it running right. And...IF...I was successful and there was no flutter in the 2 minute BF motor...I could simply swap the 2 minute BF motor with the 2/4 minute BF motor and have one nice playing 2/4 minute BF Peerless.

Anyway, on examination of the old 2 minute BF motor I noticed that the friction disc spun perfectly true! Awesome so far!! I then noticed that the friction disc on THIS motor was controlled by twin speed control levers as opposed to my 2/4 minute Columbia BF that used just ONE speed control lever and pad. Hmmmmm.... I wondered if the single speed control lever was a contributing factor to the 2/4 minute BF friction disc becoming warped? Hmmmmm....maybe not but it sure seems odd that the later BF would have one lever and the earlier one had two and the friction disc was fine!

I noticed that the 2 minute BF governor shaft was all gummed up so much that the sliding friction disc assembly could not move!! Which is surely why the speed was fast, slow, fast, slow. I disassembled everything on the 2 minute BF governor: springs, weights, friction disc assembly, governor shaft and then cleaned and lubricated everything. And I used the original weights since they looked fine but were caked up with the whitish color lead deposits commonly found on Columbia Graphophone governor weights.

Lastly, I put a 2 minute cylinder on the old 2 minute BF and it played FLAWLESSLY! So, I swapped the 2 minute motor with the 2/4 minute BF motor and VOILA...I now have a beautiful playing 2/4 minute BF.

For the purists reading, please know that I will return the motors to their rightful origins once I fix the flutter (probably due to the slight warp in the friction disc) issue.

So, here are a couple of videos on my YouTube channel that I recorded yesterday of my Columbia 2/4 minute BF Peerless playing. For those viewers who are only interested in the "playing" aspect of the videos, please just skip my spoken introductions. I enjoy providing background information in my videos for the machines that I play as well as the records and for some it may be a bit much but hopefully most viewers will appreciate it.

Probably, my best bet for fixing the Columbia BF motor that has the flutter due to what I believe is a warped friction disc is to find another friction disc from a parts BF that runs perfectly true. If anyone has one please let me know as I would love to have 2 nice playing BF machines.

Below are two videos for anyone who cares to watch. The first one features 4 minute Blue Amberol "Casey Jones" playing on the Columbia BF and the second video features 2 minute play of a small collection of "coon songs" from my collection. Thanks again to everyone who tried to help me with the flutter issue!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjQBC-8aFd4[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uckas5rPWU[/youtube]

Doug

[billybobbojim]

make sure all the governor weights are all the same weight!!!!!!!!!!!


that was my problem years ago on my Columbia BE

[FellowCollector]

make sure all the governor weights are all the same weight!!!!!!!!!!!


that was my problem years ago on my Columbia BE

Makes perfect sense but I have no scales that would provide accurate weight for these small governor weights. What do you use to weigh your governor weights and where may I get one (and cost)?

Thanks,
Doug

[VintageTechnologies]

Doug, people that reload ammo weigh their gunpowder using very sensitive balance scales. (Don't ask me how I know this!) You might find a used RCBS scale cheap on eBay.

[bigshot]

...or get your friendly neighborhood drug dealer to help!

[fran604g]

A digital baker's scale might do the trick, if you can find one that holds accuracy to within a small enough tolerance.

Fran