edison SM-2799 Diamond disc phonograph

[Green Mountain Bill]

Hello All:

I own an Edison SM-2799 Diamond Disc phonograph and it plays both 10" and 12" records and has both standard and LP Edison reproducers. Can anyone tell me if this machine was originally an LP DD machine or has someone installed the optional LP kit so it could play Edison LP records?

Also, at the moment, it has no grill. Perhaps someone in the group has a replacement grill I could purchase.

I am looking forward to getting some information about the machine.

Regards,
Green Mountain Bill

[52089]

There is no model 2799 Diamond Disc. That's probably the serial number. The model number would be on the left side of the ID plate. If you post the model ID, we can help you. If you can't find it, just post a picture.

[Green Mountain Bill]

The number on the other side of the label is W&M 033. The second character seems to be an & but if so, it is a little odd looking.

GMB

[fran604g]

It would be best if you could post a photo of both the entire turntable compartment, and the dataplate with the serial number and model number clearly shown.

Fran

[52089]

The number on the other side of the label is W&M 033. The second character seems to be an & but if so, it is a little odd looking.

GMB

Sounds like you have a William and Mary Console model WMC-33, which is a double spring model with a large #250 horn. It should look like the machine in larryh's videos, like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q56mlZdAdkw

According to Frow's "Edison Disc Phonographs", it was available from 1922-27. The long play kid was probably added later, but the 12/10 buttons were probably original to the machine.

Replacements grills are available from "Gramp's treasures" (Google it or search the board for link.)

[Green Mountain Bill]

Gentlemen: Below you will see pics of the ID tag and the interior of the machine. The numbers I posted previously are correct. So, any information about the machine?

Green Mountain Bill

[De Soto Frank]

Is there a small lever to the outside of the bed-plate ( motor-plate ), that corresponds to the lettering for "Long" and "Short" ? (My eyes can't quite tell from the photo...)

[pughphonos]

Hi Green Mountain Bill,

Nice machine. Your "William & Mary" Edison CONSOLE phonograph was a variant of the upright "William and Mary" that was introduced in 1915 as the W-250 and renumbered the W-19 in 1919. Yes, the console (horizontal) version was introduced in 1922.

The Long Play phonographs were not introduced until 1926 and the kits for LP conversion of older Edison phonographs were not made available until some months later, in early 1927. Your phonograph was therefore upgraded--most likely by an owner who already had it in their possession for a few years--though a lesser possibility is that it was not sold until 1927 and was fitted with the LP attachment by the dealer.

You have a nice Edison set-up there.

Ralph

[fran604g]

GMB,

Certainly what 52089 said is true, the WMC-33 was introduced in 1922.

However, in regard to your questions; the first thing that jumps out to my eyes is the gold finish on the reproducer and the horn throat. The finish on these parts were reported by Frow as being done in "satin finish". This was a sort of matte dark nickel looking finish.

The next thing that I've noticed (and in combination with the above) is that the entire mechanism appears to be from a Chippendale "C-250" or William and Mary "WM-250" Phonograph model, because there is an "Electric Automatic Stop" (AKA "Duncan" Stop) present.

The electric stop feature was provided only on a couple of earlier "Official Laboratory" models from January 1917 through about mid-late 1918 (and possibly some of the "Art" models, I'm not entirely sure of this). This feature definitely WOULD NOT have been on a WMC-33.

Some of the Edison Diamond Disc models that were produced after 1923 did have the 10"-12" button mechanism installed (independently of the LP attachment), but I don't know of any source that can definitely state which models and whether or not they were installed at the factory, or after market by dealers or their owners.

The Long Play feature is obviously present on your WMC-33, but because of the above inconsistencies, it was certainly a later addition to the Phonograph along with several other parts.

Still, an interesting machine that's capable of playing the Long Playing records!

Best,
Fran

[pughphonos]

Very interesting, Fran. I think this particular example illustrates the fact that the Edison disc motor boards were all of the same size with the screw holes at the same locations--and therefore it was possible to switch the motor boards between the various cabinets. People obviously did that "back in the day" if they had a feature on their original machine that they didn't want to lose (Duncan stop; speed control knob) when switching to a different cabinet and horn.

I applaud the purists who want to have their machines in original configuration--and for the historical record it's important to document their various elements. But it's equally historically valid to note that Edison encouraged upgrades of extant machines--and there are plenty of interesting examples out there of hybrids (many put together by the owners themselves).

That's why I'm not at all "ashamed" to have a Schubert Edisonic that has a motor board from an S-19--one of my previous machines--as it has the speed control knob.