HMV 32 Motors (Single barrel/double spring)

[VintageSoundz]

Hi there.

Having done the usual necessary "spring clean" and re lubrication, have got rid of the "thumping" but now have slithering sound on wind up. Have dismantled and re lubricated several times using all combinations of grease (NLGI 0, 1, 2 & 3 (with and without graphite) and molyslip, all to no avail.
Conclusion - is this a "design fault" as the swivelling barrel naturally drags the coils against each other as it moves back and forth? By virtue of their constriction in the barrel they are very tightly packed together on their outside coils. This of course does not happen with the conventional design of outside barrel wind and the springs connected by centre spindle (as these coils are loose and not under pressure). Presumably the same thing happens with motors having separate barrels IF they are latched or bolted to each other as "one solid unit of barrel" would create the same effect.

Does anyone know if these springs may have originally been coated with something (like modern day Teflon) originally or, is it just a daft design that never operated quietly even when new and has to be lived with ?

Anyone else observed this problem.

Thanks. Dave.

[CarlosV]

Hello Dave, I have a number of machines with the same motor, the HMV 140 and some Colonial models, and in all of them the motor operation and winding are quiet, the only audible noise when winding up being that of the catch gear that prevents if from unwinding and ticks as the teeth of the main gear pass by it. Normally there should be a metallic disc between the springs to prevent them from touching, maybe this is missing in yours.

[VintageSoundz]

Hello Carlos,

Thanks for reply.

There are two versions of the metal disc between the springs.
Mine has the one used in UK motors (with slots in it) which if anything may be less satisfactory than the US issue which is "solid". I concluded that the slots could increase the amount of space in which the grease can "move away from" where it is most needed (i.e. the spring coils). Unfortunately tried whilst rebuilding but wasn't able to source a replacement "solid" one here in UK so couldn't test this theory. Perhaps yours have solid discs ??

Certainly all components are thoroughly clean and a very generous amount of grease used (to the point of it oozing out of the central spindle). In fact the whole motor has been so well greased that I don't even have any clicking from the winding ratchet.

Best Regards

Dave.

[CarlosV]

Mine are all English motors, Dave. I have not opened them because they are working well, except for one that had a spring broken, which I replaced by a complete spare motor to avoid me having to replace the wheel. In one of those weird circumstances, a whole spare motor, with its motor base and all the metal parts, break, speed adjuster etc was cheaper than buying one new spring. I keep the motor with the broken wheel for a snowy day's work... And the gramophone I meant to refer in my posting is the HMV 130, not 140 - finger problem. The colonial HMVs have all English HMV motors as well. Maybe there is an orientation to install the separation disc, but I'm speculating. In any case it is not a matter of design flaw otherwise my machines would be noisy as well.
Best wishes
Carlos

[soundgen]

"slithering sound" implies to me that the coils aren't winding freely but are sliding over each other , try thicker grease , grease you have used is probably too thin AND USE LOTS

[VintageSoundz]

Thanks Soundgen,

The thickest grease I have used is Penrite NLGI 3 (with Graphite). Used generously (extra squeezing out from spindle and sealing plate at end).

2 is officially defined as "peanut butter" and 3 is defined as "vegetable shortening" thickness.
Next one is 4 ("frozen yogurt"). Haven't seen any specific comments on how thick the grease should be, "standard" grease which is generally mentioned in motor rebuild articles is usually NLGI 2 (thinner).

By virtue of design, outer coils are compressed extremely tightly within the confines of the barrel so there is bound to be some resistance. With a stationary barrel (in conventional designs), 2 or 3 seems adequate lubrication for the application. The requisite to and fro barrel movement of these 32s seems to magnify this as each spring "gives way" on winding.


I'm wondering therefore if I would be "better off with a Garrard".

Thanks for your input.

Dave.