First post... am I crazy for taking on this Thorens project?

[Il Masini]

Thanks to my neighbor and new friend Gary, I'm quickly moving past the restoration of my Victrola XI and still wanting an external horn for a reasonable price. I've located this Thorens and since I used to live in Basel, the idea of a Swiss project is appealing! It can be had on the cheap, but my question is: what are the compatibilities of a machine like this, or the availability of the missing parts? Missing back bracket, tonarm and horn. I know very little about this other than taking my Victor motor apart and reassembling after a quick clean, plus a thorough cleaning of the cabinet!

As a collector and restorer of (very) old Italian bicycles, I know the stigma often attached to Franken projects! I think my shame in doing so would be far outweighed by the sense of accomplishment of saving this gem from a dumpster and getting it to sing again! I'm no purist! I believe that fixing up and using a relic is as important as paying the price of admission to the museum to see the pristine rare piece! The looks I get when I roll up to the start line in Tuscany on a 100-year old Bianchi for a 15 hour day in the saddle while wearing long sleeved wool in the summer heat far outnumber the critiques that I'm rolling on new (and safe but not-correct, heaven forbid) tires!

So... any Thorens knowledge out there for a first timer?!?

[Starkton]

You probably took the designation for this very nice gramophone from the manufacturer of the motor. In most cases, Thorens was only the supplier. Your gramophone might very well be from Lindström or another German manufacturer of 1910-15.

[US PHONO]

availability of the missing parts?.....It depends - can you send a picture of where the back bracket connects.......it could even have been a Pathé bracket, which would mean completing may be easier than expected. What country did you find it?

Nice cabinet that's worth completing!

[gramophone78]

A good friend in Europe has a Paillard made model similar to yours. If there are three holes in the back, then the back bracket will be like shown.

There is also at least two types of "two hole" brackets. All of these are very early and large.

Therefore, all these parts are extremely difficult to locate. My friend has been trying to find the correct horn & elbow for over 30 years.

The tone arm is very long and a "dulpex" arm and the horn elbow has a threaded end for the horn.

These parts were also used on their "hot air" models.

You have to keep in mind, these machines could be custom ordered. You could choose which bracket,tone arm, and reproducer you wanted to have. All at additional cost.

Now, in your case (pardon the pun), the brake and pitch control are not Paillard. So, this case may have been sold to another company like "Lindstrom" and therefore, you will need to find their parts.
A couple other observations....this large case should have a cast 12" turn table. The crank is also far too long. Therefore, I wonder if the motor has been changed at some point. The 10" table looks a lot newer.

Best of luck.. .

Maestrophone (2).JPG (73.51 KiB) Viewed 1917 times

Maestrophone (3).JPG (80.24 KiB) Viewed 1917 times

[gramophone78]

Here is a case like yours in a 1912 Spanish catalog. The company Franco-Hispano-Suiza (Madrid Spain) had cases and parts sent from Paillard (and others) in Switzerland. *Note* you can see the reproducer is sitting in a "vertical" play position. This is because (as previously mentioned), these models normally came with a "duplex" tone arm allowing the owner to play both vertical & lateral cut records. I have attached a photo showing two types of duplex arms.

Also, I attached a Paillard catalog page showing the different brackets & arms to choose from.
If a potential customer wanted a fancier back bracket or..??, they would just pay more.

The motor that should be inside your case should look similar to the pic I have attached it would be either a two or three spring large motor.
As you can see in the drawing....the turn table is large.

I wish I could tell you the correct parts are going to be easy to locate. Unfortunately, I can't.

Maestrophone Motors.jpg (157.75 KiB) Viewed 1884 times

[Il Masini]

WOW! This is great, and very similar to my bicycle restorations... you just have to find the right group of people!

So the seller hasn't contacted me yet, so I haven't had a chance to get a photo of the back side of this thing.

Even with all the needle-in-a-haystack comments, I'm almost tempted to get this (I said it was CHEAP!) for the challenge. It's just too gorgeous to let sit and rot.

I guess I'll ask the question at hand again... has anyone ever come across these parts, or compatible parts from other makers? And I guess the other one - in this situation, which part ends up being the toughest to find? I guess with the old bikes, it was more component-based and there was more intended compatibility. This seems to be a bit tougher of a situation!

LATE EDIT: I just found this on French eBay. I know it only shares a name and there seems to have been many geometries, but this COULD potentially have some parts that could be purposed to the machine in question. I am also now reading the French Aerophone thread and the labor of love involved in that project!! OH MY!!

[Il Masini]

FINAL UPDATE:

Finally got ahold of the seller, which he already did...! He sold it a few days ago and forgot to take the item offline.

SO - good news is that I got registered and made an overexcited posting only to have the proverbial rug pulled out from under me! I guess I'll throw this out there now as well... I'm VERY interested in a fair-priced external horn machine! Even the odd European-made light project.

[gramophone78]

It's a good thing you did not buy the arm. Although, the reproducer would have been OK to use. The arm is for a small case with a 10" table. Far, more common than the large arm you will need in order to have the correct tracking.
To reiterate, the tone arm required in this application is very long.

Regarding your questions...."I guess I'll ask the question at hand again... has anyone ever come across these parts, or compatible parts from other makers? And I guess the other one - in this situation, which part ends up being the toughest to find? I guess with the old bikes, it was more component-based and there was more intended compatibility. This seems to be a bit tougher of a situation!".

All the parts that are missing are extremely difficult to find except the reproducer (you can use a few different ones).
In the very few times I have seen these parts come up....they are sold for good money as they are used on hot air models as well. There are a few collectors with hot air models that are in need of these parts and have been actively searching for years.

I hate to be the barer of bad news. It's just the way it is... .

I can certainly understand your idea to "save" this case. It is a beautiful case. However, one has to keep in mind that Swiss machine's (except for a very few) are not worth a great deal even when in great original condition.
So, with this in mind, you have to decide how much it will cost to even complete this case.

If it's something you want and don't care if your ever to recover your investment or never find the parts in order for it to play again.....then, go for it. At least you are going in fully informed... .

You can contact a large and reputable dealer in Holland regarding these parts.....unfortunately, he will politely tell you...."good luck".

I would be more tempted to ask the owner if by any chance the parts are there somewhere with the case.....it never hurts to ask... .

By the way, regarding your last question. We have a section on this forum "Yankee Trader" in order for members to place any "wanted" ads. So, if you are looking for a European machine or ??. You may want to place an ad there.