Victor Royal Help in Buying

columbia1spring · Post by **columbia1spring** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:35 pm

I am looking for a victor Royal and do see they come up quite regularly on the internet.
I am looking to buy a correct phonograph and one area that confuses me is the crank. Is the crank
for the royal only used on the royal? Will it be tiger striped like the motor board or support arm?
Are they reproduced?
Do all royals have a record hold down on the turntable?
Are the ones with the plate covering the back bracket holes early or late machines?
Any other tips on buying one of these machines?
Thank You!!!

Ripduf1 · Post by **Ripduf1** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:35 pm

To the best of my knowledge:

*The crank is not anodized/tiger striped. Though the crank escutcheon is anodized.

*I believe repros maybe available, however the dimensions are unique to a small population of machines so even reproductions may be scarce.

*I believe this same crank is shared by the Victor Model C.

*All royals do not have the threaded center spindle. That is typical of the earlier ones.

*Royals with the plate covering back bracket holes are just that- later ones when rear mount/rigid arms configurations were coming into the industry.

John

estott · Post by **estott** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:21 pm

Ripduf1 wrote:To the best of my knowledge:

*The crank is not anodized/tiger striped. Though the crank escutcheon is anodized.

I'm going to be picky here- Anodizing is not a process that was used on these machines. The finish was done by electroplating the iron or steel with a thin layer of copper, then putting a black finish over it and buffing it away to show the copper. Call it Antiqued, call it Bronzed if you will, but not Anodized. They are chemically different processes.

I get the same feeling when people describe any shiny silvery plate as "Chrome".

OK, rant over.

columbia1spring · Post by **columbia1spring** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:28 pm

Is the record hold down plain or tiger striped?
Available repro?

Phonofreak · Post by **Phonofreak** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:40 pm

The record hold down is oxidized. You can get a nice repro from Justin Schab(JAS Antiques)
Harvey Kravitz

Jerry B. · Post by **Jerry B.** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:23 am

Did you find a Vic R? Jerry

startgroove · Post by **startgroove** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:27 pm

Here's our Victor R. It has a black record hold down and black crank. The only nickel plating on it is the reproducer, the reproducer clamp screw, the brake and the nut and shaft at the pivot end of the tone arm/horn support. None of the black metal work have any polished stripes like I've seen on other R's, and there is no evidence this one ever had the stripes. The light spot on the crank is not a polished area, rather a bad scratch through on the finish. I hope this helps. Russie Ofria

estott · Post by **estott** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:00 pm

startgroove wrote:Here's our Victor R. It has a black record hold down and black crank. The only nickel plating on it is the reproducer, the reproducer clamp screw, the brake and the nut and shaft at the pivot end of the tone arm/horn support. None of the black metal work have any polished stripes like I've seen on other R's, and there is no evidence this one ever had the stripes. The light spot on the crank is not a polished area, rather a bad scratch through on the finish. I hope this helps. Russie Ofria

It looks to me as if someone has painted all of the metal parts black- I do not think this left the factory this way.
In the old days of this hobby when metal finishes went bad there were two fixes: black paint or radiator paint.

flashpanblue · Post by **flashpanblue** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:20 pm

Your best option for finding a nice Vic R is to attend one of the major Phonograph shows. At Union this past June I think I counted 4 or 5 for sale. At the last Wayne show there were 2 for sale. At a show like Union you can compare condition as well as price. Here are pictures of the 2 that were at the Wayne show just so you can see what condition these machines turn up in.
Pete

startgroove · Post by **startgroove** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:40 am

Estott, I too thought our R was painted black, at least when we got it. So upon taking her home, I applied the usual tests to find out what the black finish was. I hoped to find a well preserved tiger striped finish under the coating. Nothing attacked it. Not lacquer thinner, not acetone, not even paint stripper! It is a hard, chemically treated finish. BTW, the wood finish on this machine appears to be original and in very good condition, as if it has never been restored. In fact everything about this machine's metal and wood finishes appear to be near excellent condition.
To compare to our other R (which has the tiger stripe finish), I did the same tests and the reactions were identical, ie: no reaction on the second R either. I concluded that the finishes on both machines are the same. To treat the copper plating with a chemical bath that makes this kind of finish requires special equipment that likely not many people would have access to. Some commercial shops might have it, however, why would someone take a perfectly nice R and change the finish from the original?
So, I respectfully disagree with your assumption. I believe this is an old and original finish on this R, possibly a special order from the supplier or even the factory. I've been a collector of phonographs since 1972, observed a lot of things done to machines and seen numerous machines. So after I tested the finish on this R, I realized that it was something special. Just how special is yet to be determined.
Lastly, thank you estott for calling attention to our R, and affording me the opportunity to describe this delightful machine in more detail. Cheers, Russie Ofria